Strange problems with Wolf's S&S/Hard Body

Discussion in 'Last Steps: Waxes, Sealants, and Coatings' started by Bmer89, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Bmer89

    Bmer89 DB Forum Supporter

    So I did a little polishing on my car and decided to use Shine and Seal and Hard Body, because my 21 year old single stage black paint is quite soft. My process was this: Menzerna SIP with Lake Country purple foamed wool on the rotary, followed by power finish on Uber green pad and a DA, then wipedown with Top Inspection, Shine and Seal on Uber blue, then Hard Body on Uber black. And when I was using Shine and Seal, it gave me some problems on one of my doors, like it was sticking to the paint. I know you don't let it dry, but once it started acting up I literally took two seconds to put the DA down and wipe it off. Not sure that the problem is but I've never encountered this before. Here's some pics of what it was doing.




    And for some reason, it only did it to the door, the rear quarter was fine. Same exact process

    So I stopped using S&S, polished the door with Super Finish, wiped it down with Top Inspection again, and just went straight to applying Hard Body. I used the 'mist it on the pad' method and applied it to the whole car. After it had cured for its 15 minutes, I began to remove it as usual. It looked fine at first, but as I got further in, I noticed that areas I had already removed the HB, a haze had returned. So I wiped it again, it went away, and then slowly returned. Wipe it with a little more pressure and still returned. The entire car is like this. Here's some pics of that



    I wiped a spot with Top Inspection to see if that would help and it did, but probably removed the sealant. You can see the area on the hood below on the passenger side

    Engine lid, trunk, wing, all looked the same

    Rear bumper


    The temperature was mid to low 70's, it wasn't humid at all, paint was nice and cool. I've never seen either of these products react like this. Is this stuff just allergic to single stage paint? Now I have to find time to polish it off and use a standard sealant.

    Anybody else have this experience? Am I doing something madly wrong?
  2. 911Fanatic

    911Fanatic DB Pro Supporter

    The paint hazing is a sign that the paint wasn't clean before applying Wolfs. The IPA probably didn't remove all the polishing oils. Typically after polishing, I'll rewash the car using a few oz of APC instead of soap. You may have to remove the Wolfs at this point and reapply.
  3. Bmer89

    Bmer89 DB Forum Supporter

    So Hard Body is for sure safe on single stage paint? I'm a bit apprehensive about using it again on this car now lol I usually do two good wipe downs and haven't had a problem, but I'll definitely add another wash if that's what I need to do.

    Any ideas on the Shine and Seal problem though? Can't imagine a minuscule amount of polishing oil would make it do that
  4. 911Fanatic

    911Fanatic DB Pro Supporter

    For a definitive answer on the single stage paint, contact Jesse via pm here and he can help you. Not sure why the SS would do that on one panel and not the rest of the car.

    DJBAILEY Birth of a Detailer

    Was that door ever resprayed?

    I had a similar problem with HB on my own car. The 3 panels that have been resprayed kept 'gassing out' and I would have to wipe them down again. On the rest of the car it looks like you over applied the HB. It is easy to over apply with a pad and DA and your able to see the excess with the black paint color. Add a little bit of APC to your next wash to see if removes it. Over working the S&S can make it difficult to remove too.

    Incidently, those resprayed panels have not faired well. They are covered in water spots, leaf outlines and stains. All the factory painted panels still look great. I don't think that HB bonds well with resprayed paint. I've used HB on at least 10 cars, all of which are less than 2 years old so I doubt if they had any resprayed panels yet. None of the owners that I keep in touch with have had any complaints about water spots.

    Didn't GTechniq have issues with C1 and EXO and resprayed paint?
  6. Bmer89

    Bmer89 DB Forum Supporter

    I can't find any evidence of a respray on any panels, and it would be very difficult to match the color and texture of the oem single stage paint. But then again I have no other way to explain why S&S reacted that way. All I know is that I won't be using HB on any more single stage paints, and I'll be adding an apc wash to get rid of every last bit of oils in the future.

    I went over the car again with power finish and green pad and super finish with a blue, and used 1Z Glanz wax and it looks fantastic now!
  7. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    HB is very finicky, I stopped using it period.
  8. Legacy99

    Legacy99 Wax on..Wax off

    On the contrary, I've had amazing results with Hard Body. Doing a test on a car that sits outside 24/7 going on 8 months and still slick and beading nicely. No QD or spray wax/sealants of any kind.
  9. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    When it worked it worked great. Not denying that, but compared to opticoat it cannot compare IMO. YMMV
  10. 3PedalMINI

    3PedalMINI DB Forum Supporter

    yeah, after 6 months Hard body has left me very disappointed :(

    for the first 4 months it was incredible and i still couldn't believe the shine and the water beading properties. Then it has deteriorated to the point that there is zero protection on the paint and absolutely no water beading now :(

    Application was by the book and this is a garage kept car.:shakehead:

    Moving to 22PLE when i get a chance to detail again, I would do opticoat but i feel it just doesnt do black paint any justice.
  11. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    Im with 3pedal on this....... it was a great product right off the bad then over about 4-5 months it just deteriorated. Same with me, my car is garage kept and maintained properly. I even used Wolfs detailer spray, made it slick again for about a 1 -2 washes. finally just polished what was left off and did opti coat.

    Opticoat is very sterile, on black paint it just amplifies "the blackness" without adding depth like a nuba would.

    I have not used 22PLE, so I cannot comment
  12. Swanicyouth

    Swanicyouth Two Bucket System Washer

    I've tried 2 Wolf's products and both were pretty disappointing.
  13. Bmer89

    Bmer89 DB Forum Supporter

    Would opticoat stick to single stage paint? Or am I just stuck with normal sealants and nubas?
  14. Legacy99

    Legacy99 Wax on..Wax off

    Yes, but be sure the paint is squeaky clean.

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