Discussion in 'Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaners, and Glazes' started by dsms, Sep 23, 2010.
I'd be interested!!!
The immaturity in this thread is evident. I would suggest that all members review the forum rules concerning personal attacks on other forum members. Violations of this rule will not be tolerated and punishment will be swift.
If you have an axe to grind with someone. Do it elsewhere or off line. :banned:
I think Dave is a very stand up guy and class act all the way. I have always admired his work and think he is one of the top detailers in the country, hands down.
I think it comes down to some people being jealous of his success at such an early age, which is rediculous. I love to see people that work very hard succeed at what they do and I can tell you that Dave is going places.
On a more serious note, it sounds like lots of people are interested, but can't afford a hefty price tag. Maybe it would be smart to offer three different classes (beginner, intermediate and advanced at different prices). The beginners class could teach you how to properly prep a car and learn how to use a buffer for the weekend warrior. The intermediate class could go more in depth and the advanced class could concentrate more on advanced paint correction, wetsanding, etc... Just a thought.
I think it's a great idea Dave. I have thought of having a class myself on my off season (winter), but have never gotten around to doing anything. Good luck!
As I have had dust ups lately so I know things can get heated, and I agreed whole heartedly with Philbert on the Jon Miller thing but he has it wrong about Dave and I thought my previous post stating that would clear it up.......I guess I was wrong.
Endorsement by my self and Rick should be enough at this point, Dave can do it....end stop, so can LeBron James and he went into the NBA@ 18 so every once and a while someone is mature beyond thier years and can perform to a high level.
The vulgar language was really a suprise as I have had heated back in forth exchanges with some guys on the internet, but the attack on Supercharged was over the top.
Dave the classes sound like an excellent opportunity to me. If I am ever stateside I owe JL and Ken a few beers and would love to pay Phil, Bob and yourself a visit. Spending a day learning from a detailer with your level of experience would certainly top off a fantastic trip :thumb:
To all the naysayers...Dave is one of the most accomplished detailers on this forum and his work speaks for itself. The stories of Photoshopping and other cr@p are un-warranted. Had Dave been some unknown forum newbie I could understand the doubts and suspicions, but he is not. I don't see anyone calling Photoshop BS on other well established and respected detailers, so what exactly warrants the hostility shown in some of these posts?
We have all seen Dave's posts over the years on various forum's and one can clearly see he has been working hard at upping his game. Kudo's to him and the success he has reaped as a result of the time and effort he has invested in himself. Age has nothing to do with anything in my opinion...By that measure a 72 year old dentist who has arthritis and cateracts would make a better choice than a 35 year old one who's in perfect health...It's ridiculous!
Whilst I agree that 'time behind the wheel' weighs in heavily on the final results, attending a class like this covering a variety of products, pads and paint types would significantly reduce both the learning curve and costs of trial and error product purchases.
Thats my :2cents: anyways...
I think the class is a great idea . As far as someones age I feel that should have no bearing . As I have meet Dave for a short period of time at the DD get together . He seems like a very standup and confident you man. His Body of work speaks for itself. Like what I was taught growing up . If you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all. If you have a personal grudge against someone . Thats your issue and this is not the place for it.Find another venue for your aggression.
Carn if you visit me anytime. Dave's around the corner so that would work out well.
Bob, I actually took your first post as a backhanded compliment. I think David may have also as I noticed he didn't hit the "Thank You" button If you say David is all that and a bag of chips,then I'll just have to take you at your word then :sneeze:
It does seem odd to me that S'Charged can bash me, but I can't do the same. Oh well, really no big deal. I think I have made my point as to what I think about this class. I'm sure there are many more who feel the same :nod:
Good Luck David on finding ppl willing to attend your class :graduation:
There, I was being nice. Now, is everyone happy :claping:
Your posts reek of arrogance and condescension, even when you are apolojizing.
Philbert, I can see your point on a few points but as you said you have to take my word for it and I think my word is pretty good.
Questioning Dave's chops was not the problem but the c******r quip I think if you had to do it over you would take a mulligan. I know this sounds incredible coming from me but can we "all get along" until Mt Norcal blows again (lol).
Carn if you feel that I am worth visiting coming halfway across the world, that is pretty cool I will admit.
Well sh1t... I was thinking of doing a paint correction class and charging about $150 bucks a head. Guess I'm selling myself short . But for what it's worth "Baby J", I'd gladly attend your class and would certainly take notes . Nothing wrong with learning how the other kids do it.
When I got my first dan in ninjutsu in less than a year I had a ton of haters, too. 1 year later I was in Japan training with the grandmaster and was told that the next year when I came back I would take my 5th dan test. Passion and determination are very powerful things so don't underestimate their wielder...
Please let me know.
I will try t stay on topic here. I would be interested if there were different levels offered. I am a weekend warrior that does a car evey now and then. Mainly my own and family members. I don't use a rotary and probaby will never make that transition unless I find enough clients to quit the full time gig. I would be more than happy to spend 4-600 to spend a day or two around someone who has made this their life's profession though. If you decide to put a class like that together pm me with some dates and I will make it if at all possible.
You add one on one consultation and instruction to your menu of services and set an hourly rate for it. The client provides his/her car. You choose the location. You get to explain the unique characteristics of the paint on that car and show them the optimal ways to correct that car.
And since one size doesn't fit all, if they start doing other cars, you offer the same sort of consulting for that particular car.
And pay it forward a little bit. This can be a small world and you never know, the guy you help today, may help you some day.
No pizza, no rental car.
Dave, what is the approximate cost of the class. It has been six days since you posted the "feeler" so you have had time to think about it. I don't think you posted anything about the price other than "it would not be cheap", Phil from DD put out the $650-$800 price.
Its funny your the first person to point that out, as honestly I have not set a price for anything yet people assume this is going to be $1000. :shead:
I really don't know what the right price will be and again this is a feeler thread, nothing here is definitive. 6 days of banter has given me little real feedback.
From the feedback gained, which is the reason I started this thread I think a lot of people are into the different level classes. In that case if I had to place the class I initially described in the original post I would say that is the most extensive and lengthy one of them all, hence why its price, although not set, would be upwards of $600.
I was looking around and found this information about some detailing classes, the sole purpose of me posting this is to help you brain storming to see what your class should cover. But I have to agree with you that you may have to do different level classes. Just my 0.02
Detailing 101 - Machine Polishing with DA Polishers -
Date: Saturday September 18th, 2010
Time: 9:00am to 4:00pm
Class Registration Fee: $50.00
Best Value - $65.00 for both 101 and 102 classes
You can sign up for 101, 102, or both classes online.
Join us for Detailing 101 Class
Or you can call 1-800-xxxxx xxx to order over the phone
Class will cover
Proper Washing Techniques - The Dual Bucket Wash Method
How to evaluate the surface Condition of your car's paint
Proper Techniques for using Detailing Clay to remove Overspray, Tree Sap Mist and Industrial Fallout/Pollution
Removing Swirls, Scratches and Water Spots by Machine
How to do a "Test Spot" by machine
Polishing to a High Gloss by Machine
Applying Waxes and Paint Sealants by Machine
Maintenance - Spray-on Detailers and Spray-on Waxes
NEW - Headlight Restoration
Porter Cable 7424XP
Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher
Flex 3401 Forced Rotation Dual Action Polisher
9:00am to 11:00am - Power Point Presentation
11:00am to Noon - Hands on demonstrations and training
Noon to 1:00pm - Lunch Break
1:00pm to 4:00pm - Hands on demonstrations and training
4:00pm - Certificates Awarded
5:00pm to 10:00pm Social Meet & Greet with Mr.xxxx
* Cold bottled water will be available in the morning and throughout the day.
Here's the link to the Advanced 102 Class
Wetsanding, Cutting and Buffing for a Show Car Finish - Sunday September 19th
Dave’s write up’s show he is an outstanding detailer and Nor Cal Bob, one of the finest and most experienced detailers also vouches for him.
Dave, you mention you haven’t received much useful feedback. Here is my opinion, I hope some of it is useful. When you want to know how to set a price it’s good to look at what others charge for a similar product or service. Lustr, who was rated one of the top nine detailers in America charges $50 per hour for a one-on-one tech session. Brian Brice and Todd Helme, two of the world’s top detailers who have worked on cars shown at Pebble Beach and others valued at 25 million dollars put on a two day class for $85 for both days, including lunch. I know it’s difficult to compare classes because they are all different but it is a good starting point.
You stress it will be a crash course on how to deal with almost all finishes and that it will be hands on. I don’t think you will have examples of all the different finishes such as Hard Clears, Sticky Clears, Soft Clears and Single Stage paint. Even if you did there would not be enough time for each person to have “seat time” with each of these finishes. Lets say there are ten people in the class and the class is ten hours. That is only one hour of one-on-one time. It will actually be even less because there will be some instruction time where you will be the only one polishing.
You also mention the price will be high because you are sharing your “secrets”. Well, in the age of the internet and with all the detailing sites with thousands of write-ups, there aren’t many secrets anymore. While you may have certain ways you like to do things, they certainly are not the only ways to achieve a desired result. Here is where it gets interesting. You, Norcal Bob, Paul Dalton, Brian and Todd may use different methods and achieve the same outstanding results. On the other hand, because of the internet and people sharing their proven methods, you all may be using very similar methods because there are certain proven products and methods good detailers use.
Taking into consideration how little one-on-one time there will be and the price other top detailers charge for classes I think your price is much too high. You say the price would be upwards of $600 for one full day, let’s say $700 for arguments sake. With ten participants that comes out to $7000 for an approximately ten hour day (minus a few hundred for expenses). If you can fill the class and get that kind of money for one days work, more power to you.
To those who think it is worth the price. You will not be a Paul Dalton because you spend a day with nine other guys in a class given by a good detailer. Detailing must be practiced to be perfected.. There is so much information on the internet that can be obtained for free. For example, Todd Cooperider’s write-up of a Ferrari 458 Italia on Detailedimage.com. He discusses so many “secrets” in the write up that just reading that one write-up will make you a better detailer. One of the things he describes is what to use on very hard paint when you can’t jump from M105 to M205. I am sure that is the type of “secret” Dave would be sharing except that it's not a secret, the cat is out of the bag, and has been since the age of the internet. The theoretical part of the business is on the internet. Where a class given by Dave would be valuable would be on the practical side, one-on-one guidance on how to perform the actual work and refine your technique. But the class as described allows for little one-on-one time. This type of class at the price of $700 may have been worth it in the days when Norcal Bob was starting out. He couldn’t do an internet search on what pad/polish combo to use on a new Ferrari Testarossa, so someone giving him the Cliff Notes version would have maybe been worth it. But today, all the information is at your fingertips. What isn’t out there is a way to get the practice with a polisher and unfortunately Dave's class would not offer much of that either.
Good luck Dave.
Here is a description of the two day class held by Brian Brice and Todd Helme. It cost $85 to attend both days. The description of day two sounds a lot like the description of Dave's proposed class.
Come join master detailer’s Brian Brice and Todd Helme for a fun and informative two-day session and learn detailing techniques, tips, and principles from some stars of the detailing world.
The goal of this school is simple. To educate and inform all levels of detailers, from new enthusiasts to seasoned veterans on a proper detailing theory and provide time for hands- on technique.
The event is available as a one day or two day event. Choose the schedule that suits you best. Following this link to sign up for Day One and Day Two will get you signed up for the class!
Want to learn the basics, then some? Then Day One is for you.
Day One is available for just $50.00, and includes an added bonus…
For attending Day One you will receive a coupon good for $50.00 worth of Blackfire, Eimann Fabrik, Lake Country and Meguiar’s products.
Day One will start at 10 AM, with classroom instruction, a break for lunch (provided) at noon and conclude around 2:30 PM, with a hands-on session to follow.
Day One covers the following areas:
- Brief Introduction by the instructors
- Detailing Theory, including a discussion on popular myths
- Proper Washing Techniques including
- Two bucket wash method
- How to wash your car safely to avoid adding swirl marks
- Selecting the right car soap for your needs
- How to dry the car gently to avoid swirl marks
- Identifying types of leather and caring for it properly
- Cleaning and protecting interior surfaces
- Tips for cleaning windows streak free
An introduction to Paint Prep and Polishing
- How to clean and prep paint, including the use of detailer’s clay
- What paint polishing does?
- How to remove paint defects.
- How to care for your polishing pads
- Product selection
- Polishing Technique
Car Care and Maintenance
- Selecting a wax or sealant
- Myths of LSP's
- Dressing trim, engine compartments, and interiors
- Keeping an award winning shine.
Day Two is available for an additional $35.00 when taken with Day One or for $50 when taken by itself. It is an advanced course dedicated to paint polishing and refinishing compromising of 4 hours of class time, lunch, plus hands-on training.
Day Two will start at 10AM and conclude at 5:00PM.
Day Two covers the following areas:
- Inspection- How to prep and inspect paint, including lighting and taping
- What are paint defects?
- Paint Polishing Theory- An in depth discussion on the reflectivity of paint, and how polishes work to create gloss.
- Paint Types - A look at the differences between paint systems: basecoat/clear coat vs. single stage paint. Pearl, flake, and maximum thickness removal.
- What happens to the paint when you polish it?
- Different polishers and how they work- A look at rotary vs. dual-action polishers.
- DA polishing techniques and theory, how to achieve maximum results with a dual-action polisher
- Rotary polishing techniques and theory, how to achieve maximum results with a rotary polisher
- Machine Wet Sanding Basics
- Hand Wet Sanding Basics
- Hand’s on
LoL. MTV it is . . . .
i say it's simple. Everyone should be able to express their opinions within reason. If you are not in favor of the idea that's fine but there is no need to constantly hate on the idea . . . . if you like it you then great.
There is no reason why this thread should get out of hand. This is a forum and prior to this hating it was a really great place to be but the flaming just needs to stop and people need to grow up. Don't make this forum like all the other flaming forums out there.
Separate names with a comma.