LOOK - 8 Coats of 1Z einszett Glanz

Phil it looks amazing may have to give glanz a try on my Black MB

 

thanks guys! there was really no set time.
I guess sometimes you just can't explain things.
It seemed to work well. I'm not a chemical engineer, I did saw the DW post awhile back.

 

Glanz Wax does that, when there's plenty of flake or pearl in the paintwork.
And as per the wax test DaveKG done, it highlights the notion that LSP's give very little to the overall appearance, the bulk of it coming from the polishing of the paintwork, which some of Phil's photos exemplify perfectly.

 

Layers or not the car and the look of the paint is Mucho tightness!!!

 

thanks bob!

 

Nice pics on how that flake pops.

 

Just out of curiosity if the 8 coats didn't leave the car looking like that then what did? Obviously there must have been some benefit to applying multiple coats or the car wouldn't look like that.

 

Almost every time some one posts smething about multiple coats someone has to go and be a party pooper and piss all over their parade with "facts" like that.
The first link - This guy did not test every wax and sealant available on the market. Just because the products he tested gave those results that doesn't automatically mean that those results apply to every wax and sealant being made. Products like Jeff's Werkstatt Acrylic Jet and Klasse Sealant Glaze are specifically designed to be layered as many times as you want. I've never used 1Z before but maybe it's one of those products that do benefit fromlayering.

 

Well of course I have to add my input in here.

Our stance at einszett NA for quite some time has been the law of diminishing returns when it comes to applying multiple layers of wax. The only exception has been acrylic sealants since they're semi-permanent solutions. Even on our website we mention this.

When Phil told me last week about Tommy's WRX my first reaction was to think... here we go again with this layering. But he told me the paint popped and it looked really wet. Can't argue against that. Then I saw Phil's car and was really impressed.

So yesterday I proceeded to try it on a black metallic. Now, I only did three coats because it was 95F with 50% humidity. My shirt was soaked and I was about to pass out even after drinking a lot of ice water between coats. Well, let me tell you, the depth is really outstanding. A lot deeper than I've ever achieved.

I haven't talked to our chemists about this but here's my thoughts on what might be happening. Now, I'm not a chemist, engineer, etc so it's just a guesstimate...

Glanz Wax - specifically the North America formula - has a very low distillate content. The original formula and still currently in Europe is almost 90% by weight. In comparison, a lot of paste waxes are about 45% by weight.

I think the combo of low distillates and the different types of polymer waxes and maybe the carnauba create a combo that allows for this effect.

When we originally posted in our FAQ's our thoughts on layering, it was about 2003/2004. This was when the Zaino craze of hyper layering was really taking off and we got this question a lot concerning Glanz. It's also prior to us changing the formula in 2005. We haven't updated this question since.

Does it take 7 or even 8 coats? Honestly, I'm not sure. I was quite satisfied with just three. Next week I'll add another couple of coats to see if there's a difference.

Bottom line is this: there is a difference and you'll see it when you try it. The number of coats is questionable but there is a marked difference when you do apply more than one coat. I think it's time we revisit the idea of layering, especially concerning Glanz.

Anyway, that's my .02.

 

Looking slick Phil :thumb:

 

I dunno - seems just as "factual" (if not more so) as someone applying the stuff 8 times and then saying there's 8 coats/layers on there. I think common sense ought to somewhat guide you in this area. To each his own, but every time I see a post about X-number of layers, I mentally roll my eyes. Even the two you specifically mention have their limitations in regard to being layered.

As an aside - why doesn't someone from the multi-layer camp do some sort of "factual" testing to try and prove that point of view? I have my own ideas why no one does, but it would be nice to see a "factual" side by side comparison instead of complete conjecture.

Regarding the linked test not representing every wax/sealant out there - let's not be naive. Outside of a few tweaks, I'd venture to say almost all waxes and sealants have a very similar proprietary mixture (polymer, acrylic, carnauba, etc as well as paste versus liquid). Your eyes must be a great deal more sensitive than mine, as I don't know that I could tell 8 layers from 1-2 via an internet photo.

 

Jared, I understand where you're coming from. I can tell you that one thing Phil and I agree on is that there will be no Glanz Wax 'hyper-layer' competition anytime soon. It's just silly. And einszett won't be pushing the idea either.

I'm a skeptic by nature and don't believe that there are literal layers building on top of each other - which might seem in disagreement with Phil. However, after applying three coats on my car I was really pleased and can tell you that there is a difference.

Do I believe the results are already good with just one coat? Yes.

Do I think customers benefit from two? Yes from the viewpoint that they can be assured that there is even coverage across the paint finish.

Should they go for three or more? If they want. It'll take about twenty to thirty minutes for another coat with no cure time inbetween. If the difference is warranted, then great. If not, won't bother the next time.

Personally, the extra time I spent for the additional two coats was worth it and will probably do it again.

But I'll be clear - there will not be any "Layer Wars" reboot! Anyway, for the average user, one coat is more than enough.

 

Just as point of reference from where I stand, I can generally tell a visual difference between one application versus two. Sometimes even a third coat can be visually beneficial. In no way do I feel like I need to discourage multiple applications, as I generally follow that methodology myself. I'm just playing to sensibility.

Regarding how well the pictures look - they do look good. However, I bet that without it being displayed in the title one could not tell you if there were 3 applications, 5 applications, 8 applications, or 20 applications on that vehicle.

 

Yes saying "8 applications of 1Z" would be a lot more accurate than saying "8 layers of 1Z".
I'm not saying that I believe that there are 8 layers on the paint. I'm saying that I believe that the 8 applications he applied made a difference in the appearance of the paint. I never said that I believed that there were 8 layers on the paint. If LSP's really did layer to that amount you would very quickly have a visible and paint-hiding wall of crud on your paint. You wouldn't have any chice but to be constantly srtipping everything off and starting over.

You're claiming that all LSP's are basically the same thing. If that's true then why do different LSP's leave the paint looking different? Apply Fuzion and look at he look it leaves. Strip that off and apply Supernatural. I'd be willing to bet that the paint will look different both times. If both of these LSP's are the same thing then why do they each leave the paint lokking different? I have read hundreds of posts where hundreds of users have described LSP's as leaving different looks. Are all of those people naive also? If what you are saying is true then we are all wasting our money We should all run to Walmart & buy a bottle of Gold Class wax because it's obviously the same thing as Supernatural Fuzion and Autoglym.
I made the mistake of applying Autoglym HD wax over Fuzion. When I got done I had lost the wetness that Fuzion leaves and it had been replaced with a brighter shine with way less glow. If all LSP's are the same then would you please explain to me why that happened? Oh never mind! I know! I'm naive and I just imagined it! { }

You've also completely missed the point of my original post. Something this guy did made a difference because his car looks great. I don't know if it was the polishing or the 8 applications of 1Z or something else but he did something right.

And for the record I am not a member of either "camp". I believe that sometimes you will benefit from multiple applications. I haven't tried enough products to give a blanket generalization one way or the other. I will say this however. I have tried multiple applications of Blackfire and Menzerna Powerlock and I did not see the smallest bit of difference. I did see an a difference when I did multiple applications of Acrlic Jett and Fuzion.

To be honest I should thank you for posting that. I might not blindly believe that multiple applications of a LSP automatically make a difference but I was leaning more in that direction than the other.


"Believing is easier than thinking. Hence so many more believers than thinkers." ~Bruce Calvert

 

Re-read my post - I said they all have the approximately the same proprietary makeup. Doesn't exactly make them the same thing. One LSP may have a bit more oil content or a different type of oil. Basically, outside of a handful or basic ingredients there's not much you can do but vary amounts of this or that or use a subset of oils, waxes, etc. Like yogurt, soda, etc.

I have seen different "looks" from different LSP's, but they're very, very subtle and subject to viewer interpretation. Quite possibly, I imagined it. I think sometimes that folks might take this subjective view on certain product appearances and run with it as well.

All this is way off the original topic of the post, and is really just my opinion. You can agree or disagree wholly - it really doesn't make much difference. It doesn't take away from the fact that in those photos the car does look extremely good.

The reason for your loss of "look" when you applied wax A over wax B could be as simple as an incompatible solvent or as I mentioned earlier a different type of oil or possibly a different wax. It could even possibly have been some unknown environmental factor depending on the length of time between topping A with B. None of this is quantum physics, no matter hard you try to make it. In fact, the two posts you were so quick to dismiss earlier as not being factual or all-inclusive are about the most scientific, hands-on-proof posts that I've ever read on a detailing forum. Again - just my opinion, and you're free to disagree. :thumb:

 

Quite possibly proper steps in the care-taking process? Proper washing technique, claying, polishing, burnishing or jeweling? Superior factory paint job? There's a lot of factors that could go into this, LSP being one that I would consider very minimal.

And in regard to going out and using an OTC LSP - I am a pretty big proponent of using OTC stuff. In fact, I've done paint corrections using OTC LSP's and I would wager money that not a single person on the internet could look at photo(s) and tell me what LSP I had used. So yeah - if you can find a decent OTC line of products (Duragloss comes to mind) that produces superior results at OTC prices, then I wouldn't hesitate to suggest the to folks for their personal use. Not everything has to come from an online detailing products vendor to be a good/great product.

 

I don't have a amchine polisher yet & I keep forgetting just how much of a difference it makes. I'll admit his paint might have looked like that when he got done polishing it. Maybe the 1Z didn't make any difference at all...

I wasn't dissing OTC products ( I love Meguiars Ultimate Detailer and Turtle Wax Synthetic Dertailer). I just meant that if all LSP's are so similar then why are we wasting money using anything else?

 

Variety is the spice of life. And good marketing doesn't hurt either. I've probably got 30 or so different LSP's on my shelf and possibly double that in QD's. I should know better, but I still buy different ones anyway. I would venture to say I've probably got some very similar (if not identical) products in a lot of those bottles - just that they have a different label on them.

 

I really don't think you imagined the differences. Everytime I see pictures of a car someone says was waxed with Supernatural the shine is very bright but everytime someone posts pictures of a car that was wax waxed with Fuzion the paint has a wet look/glow.
On my car I could definitely see a difference when I applied a coat of Acrylic Prime Strong. And I saw adifference when I topped it with Fuzion. I tried Blackfire a couple of times and I could I could see a difference between Blackfire and Fuzion.
But if you pulled two cars up to me and offered me a million dollars if I could tell you what LSP was on them I wouldn't be able to. Of course I knew what was on my car I remembered what Blackfire looked like on it and I remembered what Acrylic Prime looked like and I was standing right in front of the car when I finished putting on Fuzion.

I might be completely wrong but I think that when you apply LSP's multiple times there is a chemiclal reaction of some kind happening. I think the HD wax reacted with the Fuzion and changed the look. Or maybe the solvents in it stripped off the Fuzion?

 

so much reading..... by this time I will be on the 101 application of " x" wax.