IPA dilutions and paint drying, some tips...

Discussion in 'Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaners, and Glazes' started by dsms, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. grease

    grease Birth of a Detailer

    When you say 'dried out', what do you specifically mean?

    That thread from DW is very interesting. I have a few gallons of IPA/Distilled water on hand, and I change the mixtures ratio as I go. Maybe Ill try Dupont Prepsol!
  2. ps3king

    ps3king Jedi Nuba

    Great thread! Thanks for your findings. I use Menzerna TI and like you said it is a bit grabby on paints. And after every squirt I feel guilty because it is fairly expensive.
  3. dschia

    dschia Jedi Nuba

    Dave, do you think panel temperature plays a part in the hazing?
  4. domino

    domino Welcome to Detailing

    ive never tried an IPA wipe while polishing

    is there any benefit in using IPA given the risk/ratio dilemna vs say Menz TI or Griots Paint Prep?

    i just cant get my head around using alcohol on my own cars
  5. togwt

    togwt Nuba Guru

    Use caution when cleaning a Paint Surface with a Solvent

    There are two main risks associated with using aromatic hydrocarbon solvents; both relating to the effects of solvent on the organic binder of the paint. The possible extraction (leaching) of low-molecular weight components of the paint binder by the action of the solvent and heat

    The more acute element of risk in cleaning, however, is that of expansion of the paint through sorption of solvent. The polymerised urethanes dried oil network may not be truly soluble, but the polymer network may expand by sorption of solvent or concentrated alcohol molecules and silicone.

    Depending on the degree of expansion, the paint will be more or less softened and its capacity to bind the pigment particles may be affected. In the swollen condition, there is a risk that pigment may be removed from the paint through the mechanical (friction) action of a foam pad.
  6. Aesop

    Aesop Jedi Nuba

    The benefit of IPA over Top inspection is that one quart of IPA mixed at 50% is about $2.50. While one quart of Top Inspection is $40.00.
  7. dsms

    dsms DB Forum Supporter

    Other than huge price difference, as I said before I prefer an IPA mix because its less grabby on paint compared to TI. And if you using right dilutions on the right finish I dont see an issue.

    As for your concern on the safety of paintwork, I use it on my car everytime I re-apply a new LSP... being doing so for for 1.5 years without a single issue. Been using it longer on customers cars that I see regularly, again no issue. Mind you the customers cars vary in age and paint type.

    Yes but not from the alcohol itself but rather the polishing work before you wipe it down.

    I generally wait 30-45 seconds for a panel to cool before wiping away the polish and doing a IPA wipe because on softer paints you can easily re-marr the car because the finish is still malleable just after polishing due to excess heat.
  8. Magnum

    Magnum Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Megs #205 doesn't need an alcohol wipedown if you're topping with a nauba because it is a polish and oil based glaze in one. If you're confident that the paint is corrected, then no need to risk an IPA wipedown.

    I can understand why the pros would not be comfortable with that, but for an enthousiast its not a bad way to go.
  9. Magnum

    Magnum Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    But clear coat has no pigment anyway. Are you saying this happens in respect of clear coat finishes? Or single stage finishes?

    Also I'm consfused by your reference to "sorption". Do you mean absorption?
  10. christian900se

    christian900se Obsessive Detailer

    #205 is a pure finishing polish, it is not meant to be used as a glaze. I agree that if you know you achieved full correction, it does not make sense to remove the lubricants from the polish unless you need a clean surface for sealants to adhere to. However, I have been surprised quite a few times when I thought I had full correction because after an IPA wipedown or two, I needed to hit a couple areas again. There is nothing worse than marring and swirls reappearing a couple days after you finish a thorough multi-step polishing and then seal/wax the paint.
  11. Dream Machines

    Dream Machines Jedi Nuba

    Terrific idea. 75/25, 70/30, 60/40 and 50/50 mixes are what I'll be mixing up when I get a new batch of IPA but from now on its only for pre polishing prep and to make sure the surface is clean and ready for coating

    switching from oil/solvent based polishes to water based sub micron nano polishes will most likely eliminate the need for wipedowns.
    Prepsol is a better option for checking your work than IPA as its stronger but yeah, its powerful stuff
    Just had a new one arrive yesterday which is a joint Australia/USA made product and its a one product system as well

    I also have De Beer and Metalux 2 Silicone removers for pre polishing and those babies are powerful. they really dry the paint out. we use them sparingly
  12. trhland

    trhland Nuba Guru

    great tips dave thanks for sharing.....
  13. Magnum

    Magnum Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Sorry Christian but I think you misunderstand Meguiars terminology. M205 is a "cleaner/polish" in Meguiars terminology. That means it contains finishing abrasives and glazing oils. It is designed to leave the surface with a streak-free oily sheen that can be topped with wax immediately. M205 is no different to M80 Speed Glaze in this sense.

    As an example of how Meguiars categorises its products, M07 Show Car Glaze is classified as a "pure polish" by Meguiars because it only contains glazing oils and no abrasives. Then you have Gold Class wax, which is a "polish/wax" - that means its a wax infused with glazing oils, as opposed to M26 Hi Tech Yellow wax, which Meguiars describes as a "pure wax".

    When you use a finishing polish such as M205, you'd want to check that your finish is swirl free beforehand. At this point in the process refinement should be your only aim. Therefore, there is no danger of swirls returning if you dont do an IPA wipedown after M205. Instead, the IPA wipedown should be done after the medium cut polishing stage.

    An experienced user will do a multi-stage polish and hold back on using M205 until all swirls are removed. If you use M205 on a swirled finish, then you are running a risk. You have two choices if you do this - either do an IPA wipedown and check on progress or trust that the product has done its job.
  14. Aesop

    Aesop Jedi Nuba

    Personally I never trust and always check.
  15. christian900se

    christian900se Obsessive Detailer

    I am going to have to disagree. There are certain paints where the clear is so soft that even #205 and a finishing pad will leave haze or micro marring. If you do not use a cleaner such as IPA to remove the polishing oils and check the underlying surface, you will not know there is marring or hazing until the oils flash off days or weeks down the road. If this was a customer car that you polished with the promise of marring free paint, this could cause you problems. #205 is a finish polish with abrasives, it is not a glaze and terminology has nothing to do with it. Entrusting a product to do its job at 100%, 100% of the time in all circumstances is silly as even the best products falter under certain conditions and scenarios.

    There are paint sealants that are named polishes, others are called waxes. I take this difference in terminology with a grain of salt as it differs between manufacturers.
  16. Magnum

    Magnum Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    If an IPA wipedown reveals an uncorrected surface after M205, then you're using it wrong IMO. You have to start with a perfect finish and then use M205 to raise it to the next level. Drop a gear on your pad, pressure, speed combo. If M205 causes the paint to go backwards in these circumstances, then there's not much else that's going to help you.
  17. christian900se

    christian900se Obsessive Detailer

    Again, every single paint is different and you will not be able to know how a product will work with every type of paint. The abrasives in #205 are meant to correct marring left over from a more aggressive polish such as #105. #205 is not a glaze, end of story. It is a true finishing polish meant to correct haze and marring, leaving a perfect surface ready for an LSP. However, I will again repeat in saying that there have been extremely soft paint like Nighthawk black on Acuras and Hondas that I have done where even the sample of #205 and a blue finishing pad left marring even with a DA or a rotary at low speeds and pressure. That does not mean the paint condition is going backwards, it means that the clear is so soft that even the finely milled abrasives of 205 were too large and caused their own slight haze. The point is that for most cars, 205 will leave a perfect surface ready for LSP but there are cases where even 205 will leave hazing.

    If you do not use an IPA wipedown, you will not know you left hazing until it comes back and bites you in the rear later on when the oils that lubricate the polish evaporate or flash off.
  18. christian900se

    christian900se Obsessive Detailer

    This is the product description for #205:

  19. Aesop

    Aesop Jedi Nuba

    By rotary M205 is not a dedicated finishing polish. I personally tried 205 many different ways and never got it to work to my liking. In my opnion any finishing polish should be sampled on non metallic dark colored finishes. On that note M205 via rotary is no where near as good as 85rd, Ultrafina SE, and other top finishing polishes. It may be a different story by DA however. With that experience I would never finish down with 205 and not check my work.
  20. Reflect

    Reflect DB Forum Supporter

    What would happen if you spritzed chilled distilled water on the panel like you would spit-shine a curing wax?

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