Color and Fragrance is of no value to me... the latter only attracts bugs... Congrats and best wishes on your new exploration...
Agreed smell is'nt a prerequisite, but if your wife or other better half gets a whiff, who knows, she may even help you. Thanks for sharing and wish you a clear path on this sojourn.
I agree with only worrying about performance. It'd be nice if the smell wasn't unpleasant. Also, if you need a tester, I'd be happy to test a sample for you.
Looks like a good effort there. As Dom has already high-lighted about solvents you will need something in it that keeps the carnauba soft enough to spread and then also evaporates to allow it bond and cure/setup. Now you may already have an oil in there doing that job, but you can have natural solvents, even water can be classed as a solvent. I'm not sure you will get the full effect from the micronised carnauba in the home lab. One of the ways this seems to work is by carefully controlling the temperature. You would add it to a solvent at a certain temperature and it would dissolve. If you over heat the wax it becomes just like it does when you use normal melted flakes and it will crystalise, if you go too low it won't dissolve. Once it's dissolved and at the correct temperature you then have to cool if very carefully to stop it crystalising, if you can't control the heat precisely, then you may as well use normal melted flakes.
Thanks Ben. Rambling thoughts.... Welcome to my mind..... Research and locating items.. Montan wax? It's derived thru a chemical process and not used by a large majority of manufacturers. I think Candellila can do that job. And not too much of it also. As for natural waxes and carrier oils, Jojoba seemed to be a good one, but with an average price of around $60 / Gal. if you can locate it. Paraffin. Byproduct of crude refining. Sounds good, it's used by a lot of companies, but a desperation measure to me. White gas could also work. As for Limonene, you and others will spread the wax on your hands, If I used only that, I'd think it would be to astringent for someone. I've been checking the MSDS on the products too. Limonene has a lower flash point that Carnauba melts at, giving it a good ability to layer the waxes then dissipate away. Other items that come to mind... Pine oil, Alcohol... Silk.. sounds interesting, but only in an emulsion. Then you get into the emulsion waxes..... Zinc can be a UV blocker. Could be that some people do use it. OK, if I wanted to just throw something into a tin, I'd start with Carnauba / Beeswax, as that cools to it's melting temp of about 180 deg. F, then I'd pour in a turpene. or citrus oil. Rates of cooling: I haven't seen a difference with my blend yet, whether leaving it at room temp to cool, or throwing it into the refrigerator for a more rapid cool down. Furniture and Floor paste wax. A lot of it is so cheap. Just basic Carnauba and a solvent. Granted the solvents have been used for years and their safe to use. When I open a can of auto wax or a bottle, besides the fragrance you can get a whiff of a solvent. Cleaner waxes, solvents to remove surface contamination and prior old wax. Paste shoe wax,, all using Carnauba. I think it boils down to having the wax in a small molecular size, spread out as evenly as possible, and delivered to the surface by a product that will leave. Once the carrier is gone, the action of friction causes the wax to burnish and join. How Beeswax and Carnauba join on a molecular level I will never know. I doubt if they do. I checked my Dodo waxes this morning, unique colours and smell. Feels great to the finger. Applies nice. That took a while to arrive at. Yes, making a homemade concoction is daunting... one hour I'm OK with it, the next hour says to just buy some.. others have done their homework and I'm trying to copy their work. But the older I get the worse it is to quit and walk away from something, I think I can do. So time to step back, and quit trying to remake the wheel in one day. It's not as easy as it seems.....probably will be the day I say I can't do it. /mind off
Your mind seems to work much the same as mine Emulsions are seemingly more trouble than they worth although that could be the trick guys aren't letting on to. UV blockers are interesting too although I haven't managed to turn up much info on quantities and ratios and haven't delved much deeper into it than briefly in passing and looking through chemical brochures. As for the controlled cooling I have my suspicions but can't confirm until I have tried a few variations myself. What I can say however is the batch I did make using the slightly controlled cooling method are all smooth without any crystals or heavy grainyness. Maybe it's par for the course but only testing will tell
One day at a time.... Its better to know excatly what u want in the end product so that u have an actual goal to achieve, otherwise u r wasting ur time because u have no clear idea.... Take some and sit back, look through all the waxes u have and decide what about them u like and use that, I'm excited for u
uhmm.. Well. it's frustrating.... spending hours googleing information.... So the mixing and matching of ingredients.. I've tried a few things,, butters, oils, wax's,, .... But the worst problem seems to be a Solvent. Mind you, I'm trying to keep this 100% natural. So a natural turpentine should work, but it didn't. I think I saw what happens when you add a too cold solvent into a blend. Perhaps it's the ratio's, I don't know, but I can't get over the smell. Shellac (from the Lac bug) thinner? not interested. Peanut oil.. nope.. when I go back to my first batch, that was the best. I've yet to use d-Limonene. Then I'd have nothing different than some other waxes. Then I take all types of solvents just to see how they react with the wax. An Alcohol for lacquer would cut right thru clear coat. - OUT, Didn't like mineral spirit's either. Now besides that I try to find some waxes. Montan, and ceresine etc., can't even find a stockist. If you'd like to read something interesting : Commercial Waxes - Natural and Synthetic I'm gaining a greater respect for formulators.. but scratching my head as to how Swissvax makes a wax with 60% by volume Carnauba. And $2500 for a pint of it too! :applause: So back to square one. Carnuaba + beeswax + solvent, and work out from their. Damn it they have made this for 100 years, why can't I?
Cyclo,Take a break and make a batch of beer.Sounds to me like you're closer than you think.I'm still looking forward to trying it.:thumb:
It's relatively easy by dry volume, impossible by wet volume. Well, assuming you actually want something that isn't a brick. Check out my thread here with the whole volume myth: Mysteries of the Carnauba Trade Part 1 - Fun With Volume - Detailing World Half the problem you face is finding the information. The second half of the problem is dodging the MISinformation
very interesting read Dom thanks for that. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the % by volume debate/debacle, pointless if there is no set standard of measurement and all too often completely misleading
if people are alergic to peanuts and they go at this wax by hand they could have a bad alergic reaction and in some cases die.. i would be very careful. just b/c it's natural doesn't mean it's safe. good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just an update.......... FINISHED! :giterdone: A lot harder than I thought, when I set out my goals on making this. To keep it: 100% natural, paste and to see if I could do it. :support: Test batch was: The 7th. major Change. I used 5 specific waxes. Total 7 ingredients. Produced 140 ML.. Batch size can be scaled up. Yea, I've done all the math and have all the %'s to twist, like over 36% total wax content, etc. or said another way, over 1 OZ. is pure T1 Carnauba. I've got to get some shipping envelopes and hopefully in a week, get out about 5 pot's to people that expressed an interest in seeing what it is/was like. What is it like? Well, it's slightly-creamy and with some rubbing it will melt in your hand. Lighter than the original colour picture that I posted. No fragrance, but it needs one badly. :gross: (sorry, no orange smell, or Turp. or alcohol or linseed or pine or etc.) The carrier does not flash and evaporate away like some professional ones will when you apply it. That was my biggest hangup. I've kept it 100% natural with NO VOC's and it will not harm you if you were to eat it. But I don't think I would. I'm not testing/eating it! I found myself using my fingers to rub it on thing's, then just wait and buff. I'm sure it might need a lot more that could be done to it. But it has reached a point where it works. Not one thing was done professionally. I just winged it and will readily admit I have no idea what I did, why I used what I used, or why I even did this. My next step is to see if it will stain black plastic's/rubber like some waxes will. I don't think so, but I'm not sure yet. ( just decided tonight, this was it.) If thing's look good I hope to ship, in 1 week. From here on, it would be the ones that get a sample to say what they and some of their friends think. Do NOT hold back the comments, let 'er rip. I probably have more negatives to say about it than anyone. I can't get no satisfaction..... PS. As I was involved in this, I kept thinking of a Rolling Stones song lyric "and your father's still perfecting ways of making sealing wax" What did I learn? I could go on and on about that.....That I was just re-making a bicycle all over again. That there are only so many finite ways of doing basic things and that I was just doing what others have already done. And they have done them better than I ever could. But I made/completed something. Lastly..... their also is a world of hype in advertising.
Well done Byron But just a note, especially to others... just because an ingredient is natural doesn't mean you can necessarily eat it... or that it's safe. As just two examples, pure turpentine oil should not be drunk and orange oil is explosive in certain circumstances and can melt plastic! Hemlock and laburnum have yet to make it into waxes, but don't lick the wax if they do
