You still aren't getting and you just proved my point by being upset. I diasagree with you 100%, technique has a lot to do with it, without very good skills you are giving the customer a poor product. Bigpoppa I apologize if I offended you in anyway, this wasn't directed towards you at all. Just trying to get a point across and I pretty much proved it right by certain people getting upset. Nica, I meant no disrespect to you or your forum, just felt i needed to get somethings off my chest that not only myself feel but others also. I just happen to be the one that is outspoken.