Discussion in 'Detailing Bliss Lounge' started by bryansbestwax, Nov 28, 2012.
LMFAO!!!! I see the freight train coming as well...
Hey Paul. I'm not sure how long you've been detailing, but it is very possible to do "correction work" in 8 hours or less. Are they 100% correction? No. But just because it's not 100% does not mean some level of correction wasn't accomplished. 50-60% correction on most cars is attainable in a day. This Toyota was done in about 10 hours with my PC.
I am but a lowly enthusiast here as my profession lies elsewhere, however, I do know a thing or two about contracts and I would inquire whether there is a "contingency amount" in your rates or lump sum pricing? Also, although the Rupes might be decreasing your time on one part of the process another product might come along in the future that increases your time on a vehicle. Setting precedence by lowering your rates will only cause future headaches should matters change and time required increases.
We could argue our methods and pricing all day. To each their own.
If your client is happy that is all that counts, there are different levels of what a client would be happy with and what I am happy with.........................and there are many who call and want what I can do but will not or cannot pay for a higher level of service and it is what it is, that Tundra needed so much more as there are plenty of things I cannot afford and guess what? that's how it goes................ the finish is polished Ken but not corrected at least not by my definition as just the wash decon if I were doing that truck would be 2-3 hours not withstanding all the trim on those trucks as I had one before I got my present smaller Tacoma.
This was a pretty good thread for the most part, and it's good to be creative and think things out but if you are slowed down wringing out concepts that get you no further than you were before that is a diminishing return and the present direction needs to be changed..........quickly.
There is a detailer we all know............................ and he constantly tries to short sheet what needs to be done to a car, and his assistant needs to point out "Hey you know you need to do this or that come on now" and the guy will say "Oh yeah"........................ proper detailing takes time, if your biz is focused on volume so be it but don't define that job a proper detail as it is not which is fine if the client will not pay more but why always settle and give in? find the clients who want and need and frankly seek out a better level of service.
There is also a sweet spot of jobs where you can attend to most of the defects on the car(Not always in the paint finish)to make the car look proper in the trim, wheels, interior, glass etc...... which is a compromise by definition but is still very good work. Here is what I DO............................ I tell a client or prospective client why not bring the car up to a high level and maintain it?, if someone balks at this then they are "Thrifty" or lazy and or both I am afraid as the vehicle will be more enjoyable at the present.......................the value is preserved(Or in many cars I do "Restored") then it is much CHEAPER to maintain the vehicle and your paint finish is preserved as repeated corrective steps will eventually cause the finish to un-correctable in the future.
I have a Tag Heuer watch, it is a nice watch but if I went into a fine Jeweller and said my budget is $3,000.00 and I REALLY like that Vacheron right there........................... well let's just say it would not happen because the Vacheron is at a higher level.
The clearfilm industry profit is tripple what detailing is as one you are installing a "Part" on the car (Film) and not just anybody can get film and some razor blades/baby soap/water and start laying down film so clients understand this and pay the freight all day.....................however detailing is a trade where "Anyone" can literally be in business tomorrow ready to go..................(Go ruin cars that is).
There is a guy some of know as "Shean Tiller" who emphasizes business acumen over technical skill and in reality it should be a balance but you need the "Tech skills FIRST" then you can accomplish the business side as well but alot of that comes with experience that can only be aquired by "Time in grade". That is why senior enlisted ranks run the military day to day operations and Flag officers make policy................as "Experience is the teacher".
Good points Bob.
I may have been rash in my previous few posts so I edited them to something more appropriate.... Me personally, I would have a hard time charging someone that amount of money for a 50-60% "correction." I understand business is business, but I am coming from the side of quality over quantity and I would spend the time to get it looking right regardless of what was either agreed upon time wise or price wise. Will I eat some profit doing so? yes. But that is ok with me as long as I am satisfied with the work. Again though, I understand how a customer in this case probably was not concerned about perfection on his truck. My situation may be different than others and this is what we do not know about each other personally. My point about the price increase though was only in an effort to help Bryan think on the other side of things. And to my point about "correction work," again, I was referring to high end cars which in most cases will be in for full correction over 50%. And in this case, the Tundra, not a high end vehicle and that is why I would charge per size of vehicle over hourly. We may be in different markets and that all comes into play as well. Anyone can have their opinion and think they are right. This is what these discussions are all about. In the end, the OP will decide what he wants to do based off various recommendations. Which is why I believe he posted this in the first place. Again, we could go on all day with this but that would be pointless.
All I said was that correction work doesn't mean the finish has to be 100% flawless. You two need to relax.
The "I am not sure how long you have been in business" part got my attention, it's Sunday and I napped almost all day so I feel pretty relaxed about now.
Then let Paul speak for himself. He's a big boy.
He is and so am I, but don't put on gloves and hit someone and not expect to get hit back then b**ch about it. Looks like he edited his previous statement to diffuse things I suggest the same on your part ok.
I actually already did speak for myself, but I reneged.... you dont want me to do that.... I was trained by the best and thats all you need to know.
Not sure what you are talking about Bob. My question regarding how long he had been detailing was an honest one and meant no disrespect. As well, I wasn't "bitching" about anything. So sorry you guys were offended for some reason.
Come on man.... we all know what it means when you say something like that.
what Ken asked was a fair question and he has always been a big help to everyone on this forum.
This is a great discussion and touches on so many points that I find completely fascinating.
Within the last couple years technology in the detailing industry has advanced many people’s regiment exponentially better in so many ways. This had allowed many of us to not only do the job better, but much quicker. The days of 4 polishing steps and 30 hour corrections are *pretty much* the thing of the past *in most cases* we tend to encounter. I know several people that no longer prefer to charge by the hour mainly because this technology has the potential to greatly reduce their sales per job. Especially after it sometimes took years of persistence and dedication to bring yourself up to the position of being able to charge $XXXX for a correction job, but now with this new technology you now only earn $XXXX(-XXX) because you kept to the same pricing agreement/structure. If your clientele and local target audience is used to and comfortable being charged $XXXX, why would you short yourself $-XXX because you are now able to do the same end result in less time? Investing in the latest technology shouldn’t penalize your bottom line?
We as professionals pretty much have a pretty good experienced understanding of how long a job is going to take to complete up front. Not exactly down to the hour, but pretty close. The big variable is the heavy lifting portion (I.e. correction), but the constant is the prep, final polishing and sealing stages. That’s why I think it’s important to quote jobs in price ranges of say $200 to cover/pad any extra time the initial step may or may not take and final bill based on these parameters.
And since we’re on the discussion of pricing and new technology, let’s not forget the detailer’s little sales booster: Coatings. Like the latest and greatest polishing compound and machine, these are huge upsells that are worth their weight in gold many times over. Lots of people have caught on and priced themselves properly not because the time involved to apply, but the technology that has allowed us to advance our offerings to the end receiver client. Food for thought.
Question? there was no question. It was implied.
If it wasnt midnight here I would add a few thoughts to stir the juices but alas my day semi correcting(enhancing) whatever you want to call it a camaro has tired me.
On another note. Fermani where have you been. I figured this is the talk you like to hear.
sent using my thumbs, mispelling most words
Ok,I was going to let it go but you guys want it so I will give it too you(Dave F I will get to you as well in the next post). Bryan........................ you start a thread and have your points that are well thought out to YOU. Would you adjust your pricing everytime you get a better polish, pad, pressure washer, buffer, steamer................................ if you are getting better results that is great but charging a client has more to do with your results, market, reputation, presentation ......................... .
Ken..................... had you said what you did without the "How long have you been in business" part I stay in my lane, but some can be in business a longtime and have to ask others for advice on more than one occasion.....you feel me?.
Time to let it go gents........................... as I keep it real always we all know this.
Dave F do weed need another face to face?, your contribution is not based on anything other than stirring more poo that I am involved with and you know it and I know it.
I will put it out there again once more, there is a divide or a perception of the "Have's and the have not's" where those that get and do high end cars are "Better than others" and I am looking down my nose at the lowly one step guys........................... I am sick of this s**t, if you are in a market with no wealth at all then what can you do?, however if you have affluent clients to gain and STILL cannot get them than one look in the mirror solves that dilema.
Most if not all on the boards are "One horse owner/operators" like myself so I can relate and I started with nothing and did the pos cars just like everyone, so there is nobody and I mean nobody that can say anything to me on this subject end stop.
You know there are many threads I could comment on and I do not just for the very reason this thread went.............................. someone says something.............it gets a little traction but when a opinion is posted with common sense and "Been there done that" real world experience behind it and it still keeps going in circles....................come on now.
If you have a large crew the profits are there proven, but here is what you better be willing to handle and be up on or you are going nowhere fast.
1. Low wage guys do not do good work and in general will not be reliable(Out of a hundred you will get one or two maybe who have the drive and the "It factor")
2. Much higher overhead with a bigger facility, and payroll with all the the taxes/workman's comp issues that go with that
3. You will really be married to your facility(Not that I am not now as I work 60 hours plus now on a regular basis) as "Dummies need constant supervision" ask someone who owns a car wash or fast food place
4. You will need to be in compliance with city and state issues with hazardous storage, water run off etc........
5. A advertising marketing plan will cost thousands, are you prepared for that? ( I know as I was General Manager of a Million dollar facility built from a prone position to opening)
Onto "Expectations and capabilities" calling or describing something that is more than it is..............is just that, more than it is.
Set a standard for yourself and do what works best to reach said goal and just do it and stop the spinning and BS as the work speaks for itself and it does not have to be a Ferrari or Bugatti to convey this. I come from a no "Excuses" background of the military and martial arts so when I hear whining or "If I had this" or "Lived there" banter I just turn off and turn the page as I did with a detailer I know real well and I hope that issue works out in the end.
Please hold the "Ego" comments and the usual "You think you are perfect and or/ right" remarks as they are played out and are a typical retort I am very used too.
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