Alternative to P21s?

Discussion in 'Pre Wash, Wash, Decon, Claying, Engine, Wheels, an' started by D&D Auto Detailing, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    Im looking for an alternative to P21s to use on cheaper wheels. I DO NOT want anything acidic, extremely alkaline, must be safe on all wheels and tires, and it should be relatively cheap. However, I would like it to be slightly stronger then P21s. Heres a list Ive come up with so far.

    BlackFire Gel Wheel & Tire Cleaner- water based, pH of 7.5 $44.95/ gallon
    Menzerna Gel 7.5 Tire & Wheel Cleaner- pH of 7.5 $24.95/ gallon (maybe the same thing as BlackFire?)
    303 Aerospace Cleaner- pH of 9.5 can be used anywhere from full strength to 50:1! $39.95/ gallon
    1z Wheel Cleaner 'Felgen Reiniger'- dont have any info on it
  2. supercharged

    supercharged DB Forum Supporter

    What do you think of Chemical Guys wheel cleaner...looks pretty cheap ($15 a gallon), can be dilluted 4:1...I think it is slightly acidic, so don't risk it on uncoated wheels... P21S gel would be for uncoated wheels...
  3. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    I was thinking about that, but the other cleaners sound better.
  4. P1et

    P1et Official DB Moderator

    How can one tell whether wheels are coated or uncoated?

    I think FMINUS can chime in here, he's found a good P21S replacement.
  5. RussECU

    RussECU DB Forum Supporter

    If they are uncoated metal then when you use a polish/cleaner on them your cloth or pad will turn black. Plus uncoated tarnish/streak/oxidize. You will tell if you use the wrong cleaner too.:gasp:
  6. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    Besides what Russ said, you can also see the coating if you look at it correctly.

    Hes using some CG stuff, stuff I dont want. Im probably going to pick up a bottle of the Menz and BlackFire and compare all of them. Before anyone recommends DP wheel gel, its way too weak.
  7. detailersdomain

    detailersdomain Administrator

    You can dilute the P21S Gel, as well you don't have to spray it on directly you can apply it to a sponge and spread it.

    I still have not found anything I like over the P21S. I've been using P21S since 1990 and always looked for something cheaper anything from hi-temp to Menzerna to Griots and nothing will come close.

    I could probably try to save money somewhere else. Besides isn't time money? :)

    You don't have to worry about P21S staining and can leave it on the wheel to let it do its job. If I had a car that I had overnight I would spritz P21S on it over night and in the morning a light scrub and a rinse and you are done.

    Just my 2 cents.
  8. Nica

    Nica Banned

    oooh good topic D&D becuase I've been doing some reading on the Menzerna Gel. I still prefer to use P21S but something with a bit more of a bite would be great and still have the safety factor as P21S.

    For extremely bad rims I'll be using Meg's Wheel Bright but very catiously.

    Keep us posted if you do get some Menzerna and/or BlackFire, I'd love to hear how they perform.
  9. Nica

    Nica Banned

    Just curious, why dilute P21S Gel? Wouldn't that reduce it's strength? Just wondering that's all.

    I agree with you Phil P21S is good stuff...I should try spraying it on the rims and leaving it over night..wonder if it would clean better.

    Oh and the tip about the sponge sounds good too :thumb:

    Thanks for sharing.
  10. P1et

    P1et Official DB Moderator

    I have actually let P21S Gel sit for a good two hours on some wheels before and the results were amazing! It was on the inside of some wheels that had not been cleaned since 2001.
  11. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    I know you can dilute the P21s, but like Nica asked, wont that reduce its strength? I guess in some cases that would be fine, but the majority of times no, at least for me. P21s isnt that strong to begin with too. I plan on having a bottle of P21s full strength, one bottle diluted P21s, and another bottle of something cheaper, yet stronger but still safe.
  12. detailersdomain

    detailersdomain Administrator

    how about just using P21S Autowash its cheaper and strong.

    This way you get to use P21S autowash on wheel wells, tires, wheels etc... I do this when I run out of P21S gel.

    However you have to make sure it used fairly quickly as you might get etching. So do one wheel at a time and rinse off.
  13. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    I thought about that too. How much can you dilute the auto wash so that its still stronger then the P21s gel?
  14. detailersdomain

    detailersdomain Administrator

    sure no problem.
  15. D&D Auto Detailing

    D&D Auto Detailing DB Forum Supporter

    I just did price per ounce.

    Blackfire- .35 (1 gallon $44.95)
    P21s Reg.- .50 (5 liter $ 84.99)
    P21s Gel- .57 (5 liter $97.95)
    Menzerna- .77 (only found it in 32 oz. sizes for $24.95)

    So Menzerna is out of the question now. I also was told that Blackfire Gel and P21s gel have the same cleaning abilities. So Im going to try out this Blackfire Gel and see how it compares to P21s. Maybe itll replace P21s? Then maybe Ill just dilute P21s AW 1:1 for cheaper/ really dirty wheels, could probably dilute it more. But 1:1 would put AW at .19 PPO.
  16. Dontsleeponit

    Dontsleeponit Jedi Nuba

    people like surf city beyond steel wheel cleaner alot. I am yet to try it. I too am struggling to find the best bang for the buck wheel cleaners to have on hand. Right now, I would say p21s for the high end wheels, and dilluted APC for all others. Im using ARO right now, but I have some duragloss ultimate orange I want to try.

    Ive tried DP wheel gel, it was OK, but I wasnt all that impressed, I won't be getting it again.

    DetailersDomain: P21S TAW can etch wheels??? I thought it was like the safest APC out there? Ive been using it full strength on stubborn spots on the painted lower panels of cars!
  17. Kron

    Kron Two Bucket System Washer

    The next option would be the POWER version of P21s wheel Gel which is Red in colour, I personally use it and its fantasic but very expensive.

    DR.WACK FELGENREINIGER P21S, 5LTR. POWER GEL *OVP* bei Autopflege Wartung (endet 06.12.07 09:36:49 MEZ)

    Its still PH Neutral and safe for all wheel types but is much more effective than the standard green gel you guys get.
  18. Deep Gloss Auto Salon

    Deep Gloss Auto Salon DB Pro Supporter

    Once I start to deplete my wheel cleaner inventory I am thinking about getting some S100 wheel cleaner..

    I have been chomping at the bit to also get the P21S Total Auto Wash but am now thinking of trying the S100 total cycle wash.

    Are the S100 Wheel/wash offerings as comparable as the S100 vs P21S wax?
  19. Dontsleeponit

    Dontsleeponit Jedi Nuba

    I have the S100 total cycle wash, and I have seen the P21S total auto wash used, IMO they are the exact same product. I buy S100 because its cheaper. You can get any s100 product at local harley davidson dealers, in a pinch.

    Have you found the s100 wheel cleaner anywhere in large sizes? - reason I ask is because it doesnt seem to be any cheaper then P21S in the small size I see everywhere.
  20. Deep Gloss Auto Salon

    Deep Gloss Auto Salon DB Pro Supporter

    Sweeet good to know.. Yup, the Harley store availability of S100 is da bomb!

    I have yet to really look for it, have you asked the Harley peeps if they can order it?

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