Being the newbie here, figured I'd open up a can of worms. I'm looking for some good discussion on proper leather care. "It should be noted that 90% of all leathers are coated with chemical preservatives. A conditioner is necessary to penetrate the breathable parts of your interior and restore it to maximum showroom presence." - Superior Auto Care The leather care industry has long led us to believe that leather, like your own skin, needs a moisturizer or 'conditioner' to keep it from drying out, cracking, and becoming damaged. This is easily believable because everyone has experienced dry skin, sometimes painful, and knows leather is basically cow skin. Our skin can get sunburned, so we need to protect it from the sun as well. According to the automotive leather care industry, we can buy 'leather conditioners' which soften our automotive leather like Jergens and protects it from the sun like Banana Boat. We buy these products, lovingly apply them to our leather seats, and bask in the lush softness of cow-hide as we feel satisfied the expensive leather is being properly taken care of... or is it? From all the reading, research, and personal experience I have from cleaning and conditioning all types of automotive leather (including the process listed above), I feel swindled that it has all been for naught. This really bothers me because I can usually read a bulls**ter from a mile away and I have been bulls**ted by this for a long time. A very large majority of leather is coated and protected from the tanning factory where the leather is produced. Just take a look around your house at things that are made of leather ... baseball mitt ... shoes ... belt ... gloves ... jacket ... furniture ... pants .. er.. and how often do you clean and condition those products? Sure, they tried selling me a "leather care kit" for my jacket I bought from Wilson's about 12 years ago, but then I knew I was being BS'ed. The jacket still looks just as good (maybe even better) these many years later without even so much as a light scrubbing. Why did I fall for the "leather conditioner" BS?? Yes, some things around your house actually are not coated. If you have a premium leather living room couch then it probably isn't coated. You can truly tell the difference between a coated and un-coated leather surface once you see what real premium leather is like. Yes, there are very important processes and chemicals used to clean this premium leather furniture. Even a little drop of water on that leather couch is going to spot and stain the leather. Can you imagine if Toyota made a car where the leather would stain the first time a driver opened the door in the rain? The only two times I have ever come across a non-coated leather surface was a Ferrari and a Bentley (some Recaro sport seats are nubuck). From my limited understanding of the leather tanning process (which may or may not be correct, but please correct me where I'm wrong!), leather has all the moisture and "fat liquoring" it will retain it's entire life while it is being tanned and coated. You cannot add "fat liquor" or moisture to coated leather through penetrating oils or conditioners. It just doesn't happen. You can, however, damage your leather from UV exposure just the same as will happen with plastic. When your plastic dashboard becomes brittle from UV exposure there is nothing that can be done to "rejuvenate" the plastic. Your skin can heal a sunburn, but that's because your skin is alive and always growing. If leather becomes UV damaged and burned, there is no solution short of a proper "recondition" from a real leather expert (to which 99.9% of 'auto detailers' do not fall under). The leather polyurethane coating becomes brittle and damaged, but it can be replaced without too much damage to the leather underneath. So, my long-winded conclusions for myself are two points; 1) cleaning leather is the most important part of automotive leather care and, 2) UV protection is just as important as it is on interior plastics. My cleaning process is simple using a commercial steamer with some APC+ (10:1) and has yielded fantastic results even on the most distressed leather interiors. I have used Lexol, Leather Masters, and Gliptone which all have never seemed any better or worse than just normal APC. For UV protection I just use a 5:1 mixture of Meguiar's HyperDressing which is a water-based protectant (303 also works just as well). I see Judyb is here on this forum, so I'm looking forward to some good information, personal experience, and FACT from others here.
I don't think she posts here anymore, or at least not frequently. TOGWT took it upon himself to poach her help from other forums, more or less word for word and regurgitate it here at one point or another.
Can of worms? heh, more like Costco-sized can of worms. Good points made in your article though. I have been considering trying out the APC+Protectant method you describe because I have not yet experienced tremendous results from using the Leather Masters trio (for example) and the process takes a long time. If similar results could be had with a faster method like APC+Protectant, I would definitely try that out.
Thats pretty much true but in sunburnt Australia, if you do not plus a leather conditioner of any sort on your prized leather seats, they will turn as hard as concrete and oxidise the colour thus why conditioners are needed here have used Gtechniq C1 to restore the red colour to oxidised seats in Monaros and Commodores which suffer the most in our intense aussie heat and UV
i also use wool lite to clean leather it does a really good job. than just a a uv protectant like stated above. very good post though lots of good points made.
Well, I'm fairly new around here and I know mainstream products are not the norm for most of you guys, but I'll add anyways. Mothers has a separate cleaner and conditioner that is by far the best leather care products I've ever used. I have an '02 IS 300 with 115,000 miles on it and you'd bet money that was wrong by looking at the seats. I've used a few other products, but I'll be sticking with this for the forseeable future. Mothers also has a leather cleaner/conditioner combo from thier Reflections line which is supposed to be pretty good for 'more often' use...I have a bottle but haven't used it yet.
There are lots of great leather products out there both OTC and specialty online, but do you really know that the products are doing anything protective and rejuvenating to the leather? When you use a polish or compound you can do an IPA wipedown and see how much correction was actually done. When you use a wax or sealant you can test the durability by just watching it over time. With leather conditioners there really is no way to tell if the products are working as described. If a polish can contain loads of fillers to 'fake' the result, how do we know the same isn't happening with a different effect? After fully cleaning a leather seat, there really doesn't feel like anything is needed to make it more 'supple'. I don't think I need to explain how the "it smells like new leather" argument is absurd. Has anyone ever done a long-term test on leather protection/conditioners? If I lived in a place that got more sun I would volunteer to do it. Find an old leather back seat. Set it out in the sun for a year. Condition one side regularly and use just 303 on the other.
there are a few members here that "believe" leather does NOT need conditioning...only protectant...and it looks like you are one of them...anyway, it is just like believing that you can only wash your car with a mitt instead of a sponge...to each their own. I've been using leather "conditioners" for years...do they "condition"? I believe they do. They do leave a much nicer/softer finish then 303 protectant itself...
But think of all those poor leather workers you put out of a job by keeping your seats from drying and cracking and needing re-skinning or replacement. You heathen!
True, and I'm always on board with the "to each their own" thought process. I have used conditioners for years with the same satisfaction until recently. Maybe I've just been jaded from an industry known for selling snake-oils to the uneducated public (ie. polishes with fillers, silicone detail sprays, "never wax your car again!" sealants), but I hate feeling like the butt of an inside joke that has the entire industry in the dark. Many will believe that conditioners do work as described, and I'm not saying they are wrong. But go through your shelf of chemicals (even household products) and I'm sure you can come up with something that makes your leather just as nice/soft (hand lotion?). I'm just cautious of accepting anyone that sells a product as 100% accurate. I tend to believe that there are a bunch of suits in a NYC office trying to figure out how to market a 3rd step into their patented "leather care" process just so they can sell another product. I guess it's a red pill v. blue pill thing for me. Most people will be just as happy not questioning anything and continuing on with their day unaware of the Matrix. If there's something different, I definitely want to be in the know and will seek the answers. Maybe I need to start making some phone calls, writing some letters, and seeing what I can find out. Yes. I did just make a Matrix reference.
breaks, so you buy a new one, so our technicians can have a job??? This is why I don't buyy cars from big three in a first place...is that wrong? Maybe, but it all comes down to personal preference...and you can choose on what paper you want you PAPER STATEMENT printed on...:itsok:
Maybe...but again, I tried using just 303 along, and it does not really work for me, I prefer a finish of a leather conditioner at least once a season+a protectant on a monthly basis...
I like how you thinking ToddS. Many products just are sold because people make larger amount of money, the power of suggestion from the big guy makes everyone love products and makes them feel superior. I think leather is made to be tough and durable thats why it has coating on it. I think like any material it needs conditioning but only in a way to keep it moist. Stupid example being grass needs moisture to say soft and pliable and if no water is give to grasses they dry out and die. I think same thing with leather in modern cars only surface is much more durable ro wear and chemicals. Think of the chemicals like APC people use on seats, they dry their hands but the leathers is just fine. Leather technology has been around much longer than "conditioning" sales.
I like to clean the leather with steam and a mild APC if there are stains and I have found that for my own vehicles, Collinite leather wax is a great product. I believe it adds a bit to the protection that is already on the leather (kinda like their wax does to paint) and for a product that calls itself a "wax", it's amazing how soft the leather feels after using it. It is made for both leather and vinyl so that tells you it was made for a coated surface.
i only use pinnacle leather cleaner and there leather lotion. they leave the leather soft and nicley conditioned with that nice leather smell... i just ordered 2 new bottles in fact
Just take a day to view Judy's post. Everything you will ever need to know, she has already covered :knit:
Hmm, didn't know Collinite made a leather/vinyl wax. I love my 845 and may have to check that out. Yes, I have read many of her posts and know her views on leather care. She was one of the ones that made me start doubting my leather process.
judyb rocks! She provides a very simplistic approach to leather care. I just wish her products were available in the US.
I've been using LM protection cream and rarely use the LM conditioner. I think the protection cream keeps the leather supple and protected (exactly what I'm looking for). I didn't really see a difference after using the LM conditioner and I decided to just stick with the protection cream. I'm not saying conditioners are useless since I'm not an expert, but I have found the protection cream alone does a great job.
