I am in the middle and almolst finished with detailing a trashed boat this week, the undersides and hull were caked up with algae and all sorts of gunk. Tried many different cleaners and degreasers with my pressure washer with zero improvement. I brought this hull & fiberglass cleaner acid with me just in case and it worked instantly and the underside was white again. I followed the directions, used gloves, sprayed soapy water on the trailer to protect it if cleaner got on it. The one thing I forgot to do and did not think of, cover the concrete driveway. The owner and I did not notice some spots & stains on the driveway until after I was done using it. I did not spray the acid on the surface but used it in a bottle and put it on the sponge then rubbed it on the surface of the gelcoat. The owner thinks it ate up the actual concrete and did not even stain it. There are two large areas the size of a microfiber towel where the color of the conrete is actually lighter looking, then there are some droplets. In case anybody is wondering, I have owned my detail business for five years, liscensed & insured. Very professional. Never had a problem like this before. Never have I damaged a clients car o property. I talked to a couple of my friends, and they think its only my fault to a very small degree and that the owner should have known with all the huge amount of algae and chemicals being used that something would get on the owners driveway. It wasnt only until today that the client raised the issue again when he confirmed the price with me. I told him the price beforehand and now he is coming back saying that it is too much for 3 days of work ($500). I am looking for objective opinions since I think my friends are siding with me since they have told me I am not very firm and am a bit of a pushover. I am not too worried about this since the boat is turning out real nice, have to go do the finishing touches tomorrow. Then hopefully get paid. If I have to I will just have to submit a claim and get this taken care of though. Any thoughts are appreciated.
I agree with D&D. Not cool of the boat owner to push back on the price after having agreed to it, but you have to comprimise for damaging this concrete drive. Acid can be nasty.
The client does not decide your price. You do. The only thing the client has the right to decide, is if he wants to employ your services, and what services he wants. I will say however that if the spots were caused by your product, that it is your fault for not warning the client about the possibility of stains or not asking for some sort of protection for the concrete (plastic tarp or wood) That said, if I were in your shoes, I would assess the damage on the concrete, or have a professional do so, and give an estimate of what it would take to repair it. I would then deduct that amount from the total price you are charging him. In the worst case, you could offer to have his driveway "painted" with an asphalt tar like product (not too sure what it's called) LOL! I love the optimism here! :thumb:
Not to be overly positive - but is therea chance, the concrete is reallllly dirty and the cleaner you used actually made it look the color its supposed to be? ..I am thinking maybe this guy might enjoy having a good cleaning on the driveway paid for if thats what fixes it?
Most hull and fiberglass cleaners are based off of muratic acid/hydrochloric acid which is why you see lighter spots. The muratic acid/hydrochloric acid is used to etch/brighten concrete. If its bare concrete and not sealed there is nothing you can do to fix it unless you bleach the entire drive way with a muratic acid solution. It'll cost you $10. If its asphalt, thats a different case.
The driveway is only 6 months old from what he tells me. Let me explain more on the pricing. When I did the initial estimate I told him it would be $450- $500. I was then given permission to start the job. Just today (Day 2) he asks me how much was this going to cost again? I kindly stated the final price will be $450 and the work will be completed tomorrow (finishing touches) and I will hand him the bill when the job is complete.. He then tells me this is too much money and that he can get the job done for cheaper but wanted to give me the work since I did a nice job on his truck over the summer. He even admits to changing his mind on the price too.Then he mentioned that he would not be a happy homeowner if the spots look worse after the winter. He thenhad to leave and stated we would square up tomorrow, The thing is he has not asked me to pay for it yet, so I guess he wants to see how it looks after the winter?
Tense situation....Well let's wait and see what he says about the concrete, as far as pricing goes I would explain to him your only making $150/day and I assume you work 8 hours including breaks and lunches which is ~ $20/hour, now I get paid $10.25/hour(I don't have any overhead) for standing around and checking my e-mail and going on DB. Detailing is way harder then my part time job and I would not back down on the quoted price and believe it or not he will do the same thing next time your around...you don't want customers like him.
I would start your documentation both photo and written - tomorrow. The fact he is volunteering "I hope it ...." kinda stands out to me.
Yes, I tried to explain to him the price and how its really not a lot of money but he did not care to listen. I get hosed on a job every once & a while ( like this one) but usually under normal circumstances try and make $30-$35 per hr. Day one was from 8-3. Today was from 7-4. 16hrs put into it so far. Funny thing is I usually weed these type of customers out but I had done some business with him in the past and he was different. Just goes to show how people can turn on you in an instant. But without a doubt I am at least partially at fault. I know it sounds bad of me to say this but I wish I could just finish the job, get paid in full, and get out. Gonna get there early tomorrow, still have touch up a couple areas with Meguiars M49 Oxidation Remover, PC, & cutting disc. Then seal with Flagship Wax, wipe down the trailer & dress the tires, polish the metal, and go over the interior real quick again. Oh well, you live and you learn. If this is the worst thing that happens to me in life then I should be okay.
Assuming you didn't have the customer sign any contract? Have you thought about setting one up in the future?
As per the Uniform Commercial Code "Adoption of the code by state legislatures made it easier for lenders to extend credit secured by Personal Property , such as a firm's equipment or receivables, as opposed to Mortgage loans secured by real estate. The code also cleared up some ambiguities and differences in state laws, and required that contracts for sale or purchase of goods worth $500 be in writing to be enforceable. See also Financing Statement; Perfected Lien; Security Agreement; Security Interest. Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/uniform-commercial-code#ixzz1acqQKXz5" You could say that you gave an estimate between $450-500 (i.e. between those two numbers) and a written contract would not have to be enforced in that situation. $500 and above and it should be a written agreement. If the customer has been at the house for the past three days and watched you do the work, that is an agreement (passive consent) in itself because he knew the work was going on and did nothing to stop it. As far as the driveway goes, I would get a professional to give you an estimate and consider making an insurance claim on it if it becomes too high.
As per the Uniform Commercial Code "The code also cleared up some ambiguities and differences in state laws, and required that contracts for sale or purchase of goods worth $500 be in writing to be enforceable. See also Financing Statement; Perfected Lien; Security Agreement; Security Interest. Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/uniform-commercial-code#ixzz1acqQKXz5" You could say that you gave an estimate between $450-500 (i.e. between those two numbers) and a written contract would not have to be enforced in that situation. $500 and above and it should be a written agreement. If the customer has been at the house for the past three days and watched you do the work, that is an agreement (passive consent) in itself because he knew the work was going on and did nothing to stop it. As far as the driveway goes, I would get a professional to give you an estimate and consider making an insurance claim on it if it becomes too high.
Grizzman -- Sorry to hear this has happened. Perhaps you can call your homeowner's insurance company tomorrow, or any other insurance carrier you may be using for your business if it's applicable, and see if they cover you for actually cleaning up his concrete. It will eventually get dirty again and will match the rest, but it may take some time. Yes, a tarp should have been placed underneath the entire boat, etc., and water should have been running on the concrete before, during, and after this to help dilute and flush this stuff off. But mistakes happen, and your Homeowners Insurance people may be able to help. I bet his Homeowners will be able to help him if he calls them too. Sometimes, if the Insurance companies get involved, THEY talk to each other,, work out the issue, send the release letter which has to be signed and then they send the check for damages to the person. That would be the best way if he turns on you, is let the Insurance people work it out and you are out of the line of fire. Your Insurance people have big Attorneys as well as his, and they know the law there, and how it best applies to this situation. This way, you just have 1 thing to work on and that is getting this guy to pay you in full.. I might tell him this - "We have a firm agreement for me to detail your boat for $XXX.XX, the boat was really dirty, I was able to restore it to like new, and that agreement is still binding." I accidently got some cleaner on your driveway, I am sorry for this, I am checking with my Insurance Company to see if they can pay to have the concrete restored to it's original condition." "It may require a concrete expert to come and evaluate the driveway". "The spots on your driveway is a separate issue and I am making calls as we speak to remedy the situation". "Whatever has to happen, I promise you, I will make it right." Hand him your Invoice for the agreed upon amount. Sometimes body language has a way of getting your point across most successfully. Stand straight up leaning just a little forward, arms not crossed, folded, etc. Look him straight in the eye. Talk in a professional, confident,, tone; after all, you are taking on the the responsibility to make this right, and are a man of your word ! Good luck, Grizzman, hope this all works out for both of you. Dan F
Finished the job today. The owner was not there the entire day at all. Just a little bit ago after I left he called me and asked if I was finished and said he would be home in two hours and that we "would square up" then. I only live a couple minutes away from him. On a side note, I talked to one of my clients who is a lawyer and he stated its a bit iffy. He said that he has to assume some responsibility for leaving the boat there and me not being able to move it at all. Plus he gave me permission to wash it and clean it there and the boat was full of algae. We will see what happens.
