Hi guys, just wondering whether you need to use a paint cleanser before or after polishing by machine with abrasives, or at all?
Surface Preparation Surface preparation is one of the most important steps when polishing to achieve a flawless finish Before you clay and after you wash the paint surface, you’ll need to remove the old paint protection and any oxidation first so you can get down to the bare paint where these contaminants have attached themselves. If you’ve never clayed your car before, chances are that there are contaminants being protected underneath your previous wax or sealant coat, that’s why you need to remove the old protection before you clay. Using a harsh dish-washing detergent such as Dawn on a regular basis is not recommended as they tend to dissolve oils and can prematurely dry up rubber moulding and trim. I recommend using a d-limonene (citrus) based paintwork cleanser. (P21S Total Auto Wash) Once you remove the old paint protection then proceed to the paint surface preparation process; detailer’s clay and then chemical surface cleaner o deep clean the paint surface.
+1. Although using a paintwork cleanser may or may not add something to the finished look of your car, what it will do is promote better adhesion for your LSP. Some paintwork cleansers are designed to be used with either wax or sealant. Dodo Lime Prime is a great cleanser but is quite oily and thus will reduce the lifespan of a sealant because it will not effectively cross link with it and you will not get great adhesion. Werkstat makes cleansers for both waxes and sealants.
Yes as it is still a polish and you want to make sure that there aren't any polishing oils left on the surface that could interfere with your LSP bonding with the paint. If you are using a glaze, which in itself is oily on purpose to hide minor flaws, then I would think you wouldn't as the pre wax cleaner would strip the glaze. I don't use glazes so maybe someone else could throw their 2 cents in here.
I use Swissvax Cleaner fluid and haven't found anything better and has since stopped my search.. i LOVE IT.. it adds a nice amount of gloss with the oils it leaves behind which also helps the bonding process whether it be jet seal 109 or a nuba.. i use jet seal then a wax as jetseal bonds extremely well with nuba's.. i am on month 4.5 with jet seal 109 and Swissvax BOS and the car looks great and still beads up nice.. i know people that get half that longevity though.. and they don't use cleaner fluid.. cleaner fluid in my eyes is a must..whether it be swissvax or something else.. i have used hd cleanse but it is a pain to remove and spread..and it stains towels..with swissvax though more expensive.. it simply kicks ass in aplication,looks and bonding..everytime someone says they only got a month out of their coat of wax i ask did you use a cleaner..they say no 9 times out of 10. and over 50% say they used dawn and thought that would be plenty good. some use prep sol.. or isopropyl wipe downs but i am not a fan of them either as they remove paint.. hell and old guy at a napa by my house told me specifically not to use it on a painted surface as he has had guys come back with disastrous results.. yet some on here swear by it..but that would remove the clear coats oils as well..some guy on another forum used nail polish remover to remove water spots..that stuff is made to remove clear and paint from nail..with force it could to the same to his car esp if it was a classic without a clear coat. plus he had no clue it took off his wax..people just spout stuff out and people out there read it without thinking and doing the proper research. my point is use a proper cleanser.. not a solvent like nail polish remover or prep sol or isoprpyl..which there sole job is to remove oils not help feed oils back into the paint. just like dawn..where as car shampoo like p21s and swissvax really try to help the finish while they clean.
[some use prep sol.. or isopropyl wipe downs but i am not a fan of them either as they remove paint..] Paint shops and experienced paint renovation experts use both these products, this is the first time in fifty years I've ever heard anyone state that either one of them remove paint
Based on my readings of various detailing forums, I think it is accurate to state that an IPA/H2O solution is what is most commonly used to remove polishing oils before the application of one's chosen LSP. Some folks prefer more powerful products: e.g., Prep-Sol, Pre-Kleano, Prep-All, or Hi-Temp Prep Wash. And some folks don't worry about removing polishing oils, especially if they are applying a carnauba-based wax. If you visit Meguiar's Online, for example, you'll find that even the most experienced detailers do not use an IPA wipedown of the entire car after polishing: they might do an IPA wipedown for their test-spot, to make sure that they are achieving the level of correction they desire; but once they have their method "dialed in," they don't worry about the polishing oil residue, especially if they are intending to use a Meguiar's sealant or wax. Detailing praxis, therefore, differs widely. Certainly it appears that some synthetic sealants really do need as clean a surface as possible to effect proper bonding; but this is not necessarily true for all sealants. How do I know? Because I have contacted by email several sealant companies and asked them if I could apply their product over Meguair's #7. Some said yes, others no. Some folks believe that an IPA wipedown is desirable even if applying a carnauba-based wax. They believe that failure to do so jeopardizes durability; yet I know of no compelling evidence, beyond the anecdotal, to support this belief. People have been applying carnauba waxes over oil-based glazes a long time, for example, and most have not, apparently, noticed a serious degradation in performance. And what diminishment of durability are we talking about anyway? minutes? days? weeks? Sometimes I wonder if theory is driving practice here more than actual experience. I don't know. Personally, I want to keep my regimen as simple as possible. I do not want to add steps unless they are necessary. But it's also true that I detail my car for fun. I am not on a quest for the perfect finish, nor do I worry about wax longevity (except during the winter months, when I turn to Collinite). I want my Luthien to look as good as I can make her look, within the limitations dictated by my available time, energy, pocketbook, abilities, and life-priorities. But that's just me. Cheers, Al
Dom Colbeck, the creator of the Dodo Juice line, has proposed a waxing discipline that makes sense to me: prepare the paint surface properly, apply two or three layers of wax within a few days' time, wash and quick-detail regularly, and then after two or three months, start all over again. Surface preparation here would include claying (if necessary) and either chemical cleansing or abrasive polishing. Dom is not a big fan of applying new layers of wax upon old layers of wax, particularly after a month or longer has passed, because the new layers are being applied over the contaminants that normal car washing does not remove. Now I personally don't worry about topping up the wax once a month, but it does make sense to me to cleanse the surface every two to three months with a paint cleaner like Lime Prime Lite, KAIO, DC1, or Sonus Paintwork Cleanser and start afresh with a new layer of wax. Twice a year I'll do some abrasive paint correction. Of course, during the winter months all bets are off. I want to keep things simple, practical, and fun. Cheers, Al
I agree, its used to remove any oils from hands before painting in a paint shop. Plus how does a paint cleaner help the life of a wax, where do people come up with this stuff, very helpful info to people that are new to detailing.:roll:
prepsol cannot remove paint, it just removes the polishing oils I use it all the time to check for unintentionally filling and any marring from buffing. My work demands checking the paint all the time
