PC 7424 w/ Wolfgang Product - Mixed Results

Hey guys, I am not a detailing expert by any means. But, I am trying to get some every day type minor light swirls out of '08 black sapphire BMW with mixed results. I used the Wolgang 3.0 Total Swirl Remover with a white LC pad on a PC. First off, maybe I am being to picky, but these "swirls" are very light and can only really be seen a looking at the hood at a 45 degree angle in certain light. Even then, they are still kind of minor. The car is new to me and was a well taken care of garage queen type before I got it a month or so ago. I used the PC on about 5 with the white LC pad with the Wolfgang swirl remover and noticed it wasn't really doing much...In fact, it seemed to be making more "swirls" if anything. I am really only using the swirl remover on the hood and front bumper - on the rest of the car the "swirls" are not there or noticeable to me. So, quickly I stopped (not wanting to make more swirls in the clear coat). I went on to apply the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze (which supposedly is a "nano" polish - not really a glaze) with a grey pad on the PC with a sped of 5. Same thing, wasn't really doing much, and seemed if anything to be creating more minor circles in the clear coat. Not wanting to mess anything up (again - these are hard to see minor swirls), I just went onto glazing the car with the Wolfgang glaze by hand. That really made the car shine and did seem to clean up any micro paint issues in the front bumper. I also hit the front bumper with the swirl remover by hand prior to the glaze and it seemed clean up any small issues with the paint nicely.
But, as for these light hard to see swirls on the hood; am I just stuck with them? I only have a little experience with the PC and for me it just seems like a jiggly vibrating machine that doesn't do much good. I have tried it before without impressive results. I am not sure what I am doing wrong... products not stong enough? Machine not strong enough? I thought this would be an effective combo since the swirling is minor and the product is called "Total Swirl Remover". I'll try to post some pics, but I can't see this swirling in the pics. Maybe I am just too picky, as the pics look as good as any others I have seen. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

 

You are absolutely NOT stuck with micormarring. A number of things may be happening.

Your pad could be dry and creating the marring, your polish may be too aggressive and not breaking down, or the pad itself may not be soft enough.

Try this if you would please...take your lightest cut finishing polish and apply some to a microfiber towel. Trap the towel underneath of the pad and try a small test area.

If the micromarring doesn't dissappear, I'd bank that your polish is too aggressive to finish your paint.

If it clears things up, continue with that process.

Hoping this helps...PM me if you can't get your paint to your liking. I can send you a sample of finishing polish.

BTW... the jiggling is fine, the pad does not have to "spin" to finish the micromarring. As a matter of fact, I put enough pressure on the pad so that it doesn't spin, and is only jiggling when I'm finishing soft paint.

 

Wow, that makes total sense. Thanks for your help. The pad was dry, and I placed a few lines of polish sparingly on it. I thought the pad was supposed to be dry. But come to think of it, the dry pad causing the marring would make sense. I will try that process. Thank you.

 

LMK the results. This problem frustrated me with car I had years back...and I will absolutely help you get it right.

 

He is right, dry buffing will cause this. I did the same thing when I first started machine polishing.

If you don't have a pad conditioner, rub some of the product your using into it evenly to prime it. Once the pad is primed properly it will go soft and you wont have this problem.I doubt its the polish though, WSR is pretty mild.

 

Have detailed many Black Sapphire Metallic BMW's in the past - its a beautiful color when polished. Its a harder paint, so you may have to push down on the PC, and another thing in addition to having a primed (moist) pad, is to keep the pad flat, with the same pressure, all the time you are working the surface; do not use the edges on flat surfaces, just keep it as flat as possible at all times.

You didnt mention what speed you are using on the PC -what is it ? I like to use the highest on my Meguiars G110V2 - # 6, to do final correction with a very mild polish/glaze (EZ-Creme, etc.), and then slow it down to around 4-5 to get that last bit of clarity out of it.


I cant tell from your jpg's what you are seeing, but it looks like you are getting the paint very clear and that is what it needs. The Sun will always show up swirls better than anything, but good halogen lighting will also show it too.

Dont use Wolfgang products, dont know anything about them, so cant help you with that part.

Good luck ! You are doing fine ! Be very glad you dont have the Jet Black BMW paint, which is definitely more finicky to clear up, but really looks fantastic when done.

Dan F

 

Have detailed many Black Sapphire Metallic BMW's in the past - its a beautiful color when polished. Its a harder paint, so you may have to push down on the PC, and another thing in addition to having a primed (moist) pad, is to keep the pad flat, with the same pressure, all the time you are working the surface; do not use the edges on flat surfaces, just keep it as flat as possible at all times.

You didnt mention what speed you are using on the PC -what is it ? I like to use the highest on my Meguiars G110V2 - # 6, to do final correction with a very mild polish/glaze (EZ-Creme, etc.), and then slow it down to around 4-5 to get that last bit of clarity out of it.


I cant tell from your jpg's what you are seeing, but it looks like you are getting the paint very clear and that is what it needs. The Sun will always show up swirls better than anything, but good halogen lighting will also show it too.

Dont use Wolfgang products, dont know anything about them, so cant help you with that part.

Good luck ! You are doing fine ! Be very glad you dont have the Jet Black BMW paint, which is definitely more finicky to clear up, but really looks fantastic when done.

Dan F

 

Thanks for everyones help. I'm sure now it was from a dry pad and I will take the advice. Won't have a chance to try for a few more days though. Wanted to get this resolved before I get the clear bra in 2 weeks. Anyone have any experience with swirls in those? I'm getting an X-Pel.

 

Lots of experience with clear bra material.Have not seen swirls in them as much as I have seen scratches. They can be polished carefully with your PC and will always look much better.
When it comes time to polish yours, just be really careful, keep the rpm's down, and dont use abrasive compounds/pads on it.
The installer is going to use something on the paint to remove any oils, etc., that will prevent a good bond to the paint, so if you want to get the paint really nice looking especially there before he installs that would be good.
Have not seen any X-pel products; have Venture Shield on my Grand Cherokee, and it polishes out really nice when I see it needs it.

Congratulations on a really nice car and an awesome color !! Can you tell I am a bimmer-freak ? Been a member of the BMWCCA for 11 years now..
Enjoy !!

Dan F

 

What size pads are you using with your DA?

 

The pad size is 7.5" I believe. Pretty big, I thought bigger pads would be easier. I didn't read til after I got them that the PC works a little better with smaller pads. I got the car hand glazed and 2 coats of Menzerna Power Lock applied. It looks really good. The only visible scratches are on the hood and they are even very hard to see. I'm going to try to polish the hood Monday using the microfiber on the pad trick and also wetting the pad first well with detail spray. Also, I'm only going to start with a one foot by one foot area taped off to focus on my results. If I tape of the area with blue tape is it ok if the pad hits the tape? Also, anyone ever try a great detail spray called EMC-33? I only get
It at this one BMW dealer, but it's not a BMW product. It's by a company called Topps ALL. this stuff works like no other, but nobody sells it. I think that compant sells as a supplier to body shops, etc - not really retail. Thanks everyone.

 

It isn't a problem if you were to hit the tape. That is how the guys on the forum get those great 50/50 shots. They polish right up to / a bit onto the tape. I've never tried EMC-33 but it sounds good from your opinions.
Don't be afraid to put a little pressure on the polisher. I'm not suggesting that you put all of your weight on it, but it is completely fine to give it a little hell.

 

7.5'' pads are a bit too big for correcting with the PC. I would say 6.5 as the biggest you'd want to go.

 

You need to use the right amount of polish (not too much or too little), reasonable work area (18x180, and be sure to break it down. Also, clean the pad regularly (like every other section) since build up will reduce cut and finish results.

 

How do you clean the pad while working with it? I'm using diluted car wash to soak them when I'm done. Then I rinse and dry them well. Thanks

 

Your problem is the 7.5" pads. Get a 5" backing plate with 5.5" pads and you'll see the swrils disappear.

 

In this vid Meguiars use a 7" pad with swirl remover using a DA...

YouTube - NEW 2009 SwirlX from Meguiar's G17616

 

I know it's been a few weeks but I think I finally got the hang of it. You guys were right. The problem was I was starting with a dry pad and not enough product. I wet the pad with some detailing spray also. One thing I'm not sure of is I keep reading how BMW BSM paint is "hard" - I find this clear coat scratches so easy, you have to be super careful even drying this car.