Not Happy with first detail....

Discussion in 'Car Detailing Product Discussion' started by NickBlaine, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Well, the first major detail on my car went ok. But, I am not happy with not being able to get all of the swirls out. Or a majority for that matter. Washing and claying went great, the W99 as well as iron cut made claying the car a breeze. But, when it got to the cutting part, I dont feel the products I had were what I needed.

    I am a noob, and it was my first time using the Griots, but I feel the 1z polish didn't have enough in it to get the swirls out. I also had some Meg's machine glaze, but it obviously didn't have much cut to it. When looking for a new product for this step, what do you all recommend? Menzerna and Meg's I see mentioned the most. Relatively close in price.

    Also, when using either the Menz or Megs, should I use the 1z polish afterwards on a polish pad, just before wax? Any other tips are welcome, as I am a little aggravated at myself for spending so much time, and not being happy with my results.

    Car is a 2011 Chrysler 300C, has had warranty paintwork done by the dealer on a couple of occasions, and they are complete idiots.


  2. 911Fanatic

    911Fanatic DB Pro Supporter

    What machine and pads are you using?
  3. GDAL

    GDAL Super Moderator

    Welcome to the forum ...

    I felt the same way the first time I tried polishing on my vehicle. I can't tell you exactly what went wrong, but there's a few things that I can tell you affected the outcome of my 1st detailing encounter.

    1. Speed, Pressure & Hand Movements- When I first detailed, I thought polishing was like the hack guys at car wash ... 1 or 2 fast strokes and I was done. Watch videos and notice their speed and technique. Rushing is not your friend here.

    2. Pad/Polish combo- Did you do a test spot and then an IPA wipedown? Not all paints are the same, but I did a 300c a while ago and Chrysler paint tends to be hard as cerami-clear. The listed polishes might not have been the best options if you wanted a noticeable correction. Another thing to consider is the aftermarket paint. This paint tends to react different from the rest of the factory paint, so a test spot is also necessary.

    If you don't mind, feel free to post your location and maybe someone here can help you out. I have had several members help me out with questions.
  4. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    ^^ what he said.

    My suggestion. Don't try doing the "whole" car right off the bat, pick a fender or the trunk and work that till you find out the right combo of what works. Pad, Pressure, Polish and speed. Once you determine what works then attack the whole car. I think that is less of a "bummer" then doing the entire car right off the bad and realizing what you were doing did not work.

    I don't know anything about 1z polishes. So I won't comment.

    I am a big fan of Menz polishes, and that's all I've used for a good 7 years now. I find the learning curve is easier.

    Adams IMO has THE best video tutorials out, never used their polishes but they seem to be a great system, almost a no brainier based on matching pads and polishes that are color coordinated. That removes the guess work out of the product, now the only factor would be speed, and pressure as well as what GDAL said, hand movements.

    GDAL is right, they are a very hard clear..... almost as hard as VW/ Audi...... IIRC they are a ceramic clear and that came from their marriage to Daimler/MB from a few years back.
  5. daveinsweethome

    daveinsweethome DB Forum Supporter

    remember the junkman? learned a ton from him and fun while doing it.
  6. GDAL

    GDAL Super Moderator

    Minus the "you can't burn clear with a DA" which is false.
  7. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    I have been watching a ton of videos on youtube. Many from the Junkman, and also other detailing videos. So, I dont think I was going to fast, but may not have been applying much pressure. I used the north/south and then switched to east/west movements. I tried to go slow, and make sure I made at least 5 passes.

    I am using the Uber pads that come with the Griots 6" orbital kit. I applied with the orange pad first, and didnt notice much, so I switched to the yellow pad. This improved the results, so I continued with that. I didnt want to start out with too serious of a cut, and do damage. After doing the car with the yellow pad, I used the orange pad with the 1z polish over the car again, then used the black pad for the 1z glanz wax.

    So if I were to go to the mezerna products, what are your recommendations for product/pad?

    I am in Greenwood, IN btw. If I can get off work, the Junkman is holding a clinic on the 23rd. So that might be good for me to go and see everything in person.
  8. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    Sorry, duplicate post.
    Dan F
  9. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    Which Einszett product did you use ? They make a few different ones. What speed did you use the most with the Griot random orbital ?
    Whenever I use one of these machines, I will put enough pressure on it to almost stop it from rotating. You need to use smaller diameter pads to get better rotation which will help correct that hard paint better.
    Anything with the words "polish" is not really set up to correct hard paint or possibly any hardness of paint. It is meant to "polish" out anything that may be left from the compounding/correction part of the job - especially if you are using only a Random Orbital that is not a Rupes machine, which is the newest and supposedly best machine out there that is not a Rotary.

    Dan F
  10. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

  11. J BELL

    J BELL Nuba Guru

    I am not familiar with that 1Z product, but anything that says "will decrease the appearance of swirls" smells like a lot of fillers to me. In fact, by the description it appears to be an All In one product (at best). Your technique probably wasnt at fault here, it was your product not meeting the conditions. Step up to a heavier hitter like Menzerna or the Meguiars 105/D300. And i crank up my Flex to 5.5 or 6, so a lesser powerful machine i would blast at 6 indefinitely. Others may not but thats what i do. The new microfiber towels cut well and i run at 5 on a flex.
  12. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    ^^ I agree, it has medium cut, I would step up to a dedicate polish with proper cutting abilities.

    Maybe look at getting the Megs MF system with D300. Finish with something like power finish and a green pad.
  13. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    Hi Nick -

    If you look at the graph, that Einszett polish is to the left a little of being a medium strong product. While this may work for some paints, if you watched any of the Einszett videos, you will notice they always use Rotary power. (which is all I ever use to correct).
    I think, using this product on a pretty slow speed ( I like to run a random orbital wide open speed 6), with a 6" pad probably, you were not getting a whole lot of rotation of the the pad, which is needed to get the product to work itself down on the paintwork. You would also need much pressure to help this process work better.

    There is still much to learn ! I guess videos help, I have never watched very much , because I grew up doing this and learned from some of the best Painters and Detailers around at the time I was growing up. If there are any good Detailers around your part of the country, I hope they chime in and perhaps can invite you to come see or maybe come by and check out your work with you.

    Dont get discouraged. This is absolutely possible to correct and make the paint look like a mirror. Sometimes, it is also good to step away from it for a bit, think about it, research (as you are already doing here), and then go back to it again, refreshed.

    This Forum has a huge amount of very talented, hard working people who turn out perfect work, (present company included :) and we will all do what we can to help you with this, ok ?
    Dan F
  14. InsanePaint

    InsanePaint Pro Detailer

    Hey buddy! Pictures always help us to help YOU, but like these guys stated, that's what we're here for! :)
    Here's a link to our videos:
    Instructional Detailing Videos

    I'm also available for personal consultation if you'd like. These guys all give great advice, so I won't replicate what they've already mentioned. PM me if you want my cell number! :)
  15. JSF721

    JSF721 Jedi Nuba

    I know exactly how you feel. It looks so easy when you see someone else do it. I was totally frustrated in 2009ish and ready to give up after accumulating a PC, a flex and various polishes, towels and LSP's. Bottom line is get some hands on experience under the watchful eye of a pro. If you can sign up for Phil and David's class. you will walk out with enough knowledge to get your car de-swirled and basic skills of a detailer that you can refine and perfect on your own.

    These guys are worth the trip!

    Good luck!
  16. 911Fanatic

    911Fanatic DB Pro Supporter

    To keep things simple, get some Megs 105 or Menzerna FG400 ( my fav ). Both are compounds ( more aggressive than polishes ) but are also capable of finishing down good enough to be LSP ready for 99% of people. I have the Uber pads and love them but for ceramic clears, get the Meguiars or Optimum / CG microfibre cutting discs. The Megs are a bit more aggressive, but also tend to clog up faster. The Optimum ones are a bit looser weave so don't clog up as fast and only require brushing tho clean after each section. Use a short bristled nailbrush or compressed air. You can follow up with your 1Z polish to amp up the gloss a bit if you'd like but I'll doubt you'll need to after FG400.
  17. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Wow, I want to thank you all for your fast responses! I've only been on here for a few weeks, mostly reading, and I must say the responses and advice I have seen are much better than most car forums I have been on.

    I never thought to take pictures, so as soon as it stops snowing/crappy weather is over, I'll get some pictures of the paint, etc.

    I think for now, I will grab up a cutting disk, some Menz FG400, and see how things go from there. I will stick to just one panel this time, until I get my technique right, and the right pad/polish/speed down.

    Chase thanks for the links, I will be sure to watch more
  18. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Products should be here Tuesday. Now all I need is some warmer weather....
  19. Celtic Bob

    Celtic Bob Two Bucket System Washer

    Similar here Nick.
    I am new at this and just received my Griot's a couple of weeks ago. I have the FG400 on the way along with some LC Orange and LC Blue pads. My new black car has some light swirls that need to be removed. If memory serves correct the procedure is......
    Seal (Blacklight then Jetseal applies here for me)
  20. NickBlaine

    NickBlaine Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Well, I got the products. And of course, as soon as I put this purchase in, DD is having a spring sale for 15% off. So, I put another order in. Picked up Wolfs shine and seal, and Hard Body. Also got some glass sealant. Looks like the temp wont be reaching above 50 until the 2nd week of April. Hopefully the weatherman is wrong.

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