Misconceptions and assumptions end here.

I have been noticing this pretty much every where in the detailing world and I think its time we end it. What manufacturers have hard clear or soft or anywhere in between. This advice is always well intended, I know. The only issue I have is this, If we tell someone they have hard clear and might as well go rambo on their clear with a wool pad and some Megs 105 they may achieve full correction. The only problem is that this may have been achieved with Menz IP or something. I say its time to move forward from these online assumptions and go back to the text book. Start with your lightest combination and work up. You may save yourself a ton of time, and polish doing so. I find the best way to guess the hardness of paint is to find out yourself. If you do not have a thickness gauge I think this advice is the best you will get. Just my personal opinion on this, if you disagree thats okay. However I would love to know the reason:thumb:

 

I fully agree with you when you say you should test the car you are working on as there can be variation. But it is always nice to know what the majority of clears people have worked on are in terms of hardness so you dont get any surprises and know what to pick up if you are mobile.

Unless you have worked on the car before should always test from low to high to figure out hardness but like I said always nice to know what it may be so you dont get a nasty surprise.

 

There are numerous hard clears that I have worked on Menzerna won't touch it. If you have a pc, the Megs twins ARE your best bet to remove the defects. Plus you do not always need to use wool and 105, 105 does work with other pads. This is were people always do need to figure out the lest aggressive method but you can adjust the cut with different pads with the Megs twins. I love Menzerna but right now they are behind.

 

All valid points but as Aesop said, back to basics. Start with your least aggressive combo and work your way up. Its the safest way to go and just makes sense regardless of the polishes you are using.

 

thats the method ive been using all along. Sometimes less aggressive pads and polishes worked in right will correct things you would have expected something more aggressive to do. as far as misinforming people i dont think too much of that happens. at least not on here from my experience. when i was learning to polish all i ever heard was start with the least aggressive and move up

 

Aesop..you're preaching to the choir on this point. You will see me say over and over if you read my posts that there is no constants in detailing and you must experiment with pads/polishes for every car you get. Of course meaning start with the least aggressive and work your way up to see what works. That and having a PTG to know what you're working with are your 2 biggest variables. Amen to your sermon, brother.

 

Always get confused on this but what is more dominant, pad or polish in the combo? i.e. what has more of a effect on cut the pad or the polish. I assume it is the polish but I have read it both ways.

 

I can't think of a good comparison to use. Start with a polish like power finish or sip or X3 or something middle of the road if you have some correction to do. Use something like an orange LCC pad (I use this combo of orange LCC and Presta UCCL a lot) and if it does not work then use a pfw or something. If that does not work, try the orange pad with M105 or an equivalent. If that does not do it, step up to wool again. You kinda step back and forth with pad and polish till you get what works. Hope that helps,

 

That is pretty much what I have been doing. Just was wondering if there was a dominance factor when it came to pads and polishes or if it really differs from polishes if it takes dominance or not. As I only detail family cars I pretty much know what to use on all 3 of them now, but that was on a DA, now that I have a rotary I will have to start from the bottom and see what new combo will work best.

 

Hmm, that's the practice I've always followed but it doesn't hurt to reiterated good habits.

 

If the detailing community had a list for the 10 commandments, this would probably be #1.
Least aggressive approach first. It's what i preach with every customer and others.

 

Hard / Soft Clear Coats

There are no charts available that list the consistency of automotive paint, as this would necessitate listing by; manufacturer, OEM assembly plant, model year, colour, paint specification, and etc. To ascertain paint hardness require extensive experience working on a wide range of vehicles to have a point of reference. Using the least aggressive pad / polish combination followed, if necessary by an incrementally more aggressive approach until you find what works.

• Each vehicle assembly plant uses different clear coat paint from one of three major paint suppliers; PPG, DuPont, and BASF products and each of these companies have a range of several differing paints
• Most vehicle manufacturers will issue a painting specification that denotes amongst other things paint to hardener ratio, dependent upon quality control this spec may or may not be strictly adhered to
• Some vehicle manufacturers have more than one plant assembling the same model of a vehicle; each plant will often use a different supplier for the clear coat paints.
• Each assembly plant may elect to use one of several OEM paints from PPG, DuPont or BASF clear coat product lines.

There are other factors that will have an effect; the composition of the clear coat used (single, duel component, or powder) this generally reflects the trade off the OEM is prepared to accept between scratch resistance and gloss level considered acceptable, oven drying time and its temperature, the relevant age (i.e. how long ago was the paint applied) spot panel repairs (refinish) that are carried out either at the assembly plant or the rail head or port of entry. Soft paint could also be caused if it was polished before the paint had time to fully cure

This is also true of imports assembled in the US; usually one paint supplier is approved for all plants; however each plant may modify the application/bake process in order to meet production demand. This may also affect which has the harder or softer clear.
• Hard paint - paint requires a more aggressive abrasive polish and takes more time to correct
• Soft paint- responds to abrasives more readily and makes polishing easier, but it’s easier to induce surface marring.
• Water-based paint is generally more porous and softer
• Solvent-based clear coat paint is usually harder than a water-based paint and not as porous
• As always generalizing carries a degree of risk as a panel(s) may have been re-painted
• Before commencing polishing do a test panel on the car, once you have achieved the desired results with your selected polish / pad combination proceed

Diagnosis is the key, not guess work; before deciding on what products to use ascertain the paint surface conditions


An extract from one of a series of unbiased Detailing Technical Papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet.© TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2009, all rights reserved.

Chances are you'll learn something and advance your knowledge of detailing if you read any of these.

 

Foam Pad Dependency

All abrasive polishes are ‘foam pad and applied pressure dependant’ as far as their paint correction abilities are concerned. If we consider the Lake County (LC) White foam (50 PPI) polishing pad as the baseline; any polish used will derive help from the abrasive abilities of the foam. Then consider the LC Blue (70 PPI) finishing pad has no abrasive ability and will contribute nothing to the cutting capability of a polish.

What is derived from this is that a polishes abrasive ability can be ‘fine tuned’ by using different combinations (abrasiveness) of polish and foam (the same thing is true of wool pads) and of course differing the amount of downward pressure (10-15 Lbs is the usual range) applied will also have an effect on the abrasives capability
Different pad / product combinations

a) Base pad / product (least abrasive pad / product) if this combination does not provide the desired results, increase the aggressiveness of the technique or product selection.
b) Step-up 1 - using the same pad with a more abrasive product
c) Step-up II – use a less abrasive pad and the same product as used in step-up I
d) Step-up III- using the same pad with a more abrasive product

 

I also like to tell clients hardness is a matter of an interaction between both the clearcoat & colorcoat. Some color coats maybe hard to heat up, but the clearcoat can be quite soft and easily marred.

 

If you don't know how hard it is, that's the best method. Otherwise if you have the experience, there's no second guessing what you'll need.

 

check the link that i posted about machine polishing it has a lot of info about going from least agg. setup to more agg. with graphs, pics and some real nice examples that show the idea of going the least agg. route first. here is the link to check it out

Machine Polishing by Rotary Polisher - Full Guide - Detailing World