Menzerna Discussion

I am not sure for those who saw the thread on autopia but these quotes are from Jeff Silver, who imports Menzerna. This discussion focused on the defect masking that over 40 detailers have now publically seen.

I should note that these are top detailers who have witnessed this problem and here are th names of some of the detailers who have experienced this problem.

Scottwax;VASuperShine;Pats300ZX;Picus;David Fermani(ProTecht);SuperBee;GMBlack3A;RickRack;Rydawg;SpoiledMan;TH0001(me). To be honest the list grows longer and longer each day and it should be noted that these (with the execption of me) are some of the highest quality detailers in the country.

Here is a direct quote from Jeff Silver regarding the filling that these top detailers have experienced.

"I can only hope that their (detailers who had problems with Menzenra) SKILL INCREASES to match the quality of the product"

To me this is one of the worst examples of customer service I have ever seen, not to mention the fact that the reason for Menzerna's popularity in the high end detailing segement has been the frequent use of these products by top end detailers.

Now it should be noted that Jeff Silver is a guitar guy and not really a detailers, and his responses have shown a severe lack of knowledge about what he sells.

Jeff Silver has publically called me a liar and claimed I invent conversations even though I have shown him (and offered to show him more) emails he sent to various friends of mine where he contradicts himself and lies. He told Brian Brice that PO853.02 is SIP then told Rydawg the same day that it is NOT 3.02 but 3.01. Not a big deal, but he changed the answer to match the question, and that is unethical.

Also he has stood up to anybody who claimed they had filling with Menzerna products (and anybody who has used them enough will have it) a liar and refused to help with the problem because no matter how many people (and no matter the reputation of those people) have the problem. He simply denies it can happen and pays no attention to his dissatisfied customers.

SuperBee and myself where recently banned from autopia for having Jeff's quote (a quote he made) in our signature. From my understanding (from people I trust) a couple vendors made a big deal because Jeff's comments could affect their sales and they did not appericate us quoting him.

To get banned for somebody elses comments doesn't sit well with me because it is in line with the typical pass the buck mentality that most go by. If the vendors are upset that Jeff Silver is making comments and hurting the the value of the products that they sell they should focus there anger and frustration with Jeff. (I would hate to do business with somebody who sabatoges the products I am trying to sell for him). Instead it is easier to ban those who only repeat what was said.

Menzerna makes great polishes but it is unforunate that the company choose Jeff Silver to be the importer of their products. His ego seems to be in direct contradiction with the helping attitude that most detailers seem to share.

 

I thought the temporary ban was likely due to the endless posts about him. I assumed you were warned. It is one thing to make one remark but it seemed to go on and on against him. You rightly called him out on it but after that you cannot just beat the dead horse. At this point, he was not going to come back do anything so the discussion with him was over.

I enjoyed your posts so I hope you will return when your timeout ends.

 

Todd, you are a fantastic detailer and I greatly admire your work. I have learned a lot from you, as have others.

But with all due respect, you're going to have let this go and move on. It's really not worth getting all worked up for.

 

Geebus, the filling issue did nothing to detract me from wanting and continuing to use the product. I love the :deadhorse: threads sometimes...reminds me of a post about lightweight 2 piece brake rotors increasing whp and wtq.

 

I totally undestand the dead horse comment but when Jeff had pubically called me a liar I took offense to it. I understand also that I am not the most popular guy because I share my opinions very bluntly.

I was never warned (and if I was I would have stopped). I was banned (time out actually) because I quoted Jeff in my signature. I have been told (by a moderator) that certain vendors complained about this which was the reason for the time out. But by the same token I should have backed off as people don't need me to tell them how to think.

 

Thanks for the compliments and your comments where taken respectfully. Thanks

 

There's been alot of "I assume you were warned" posts, here and on Autopia. That's giving them the benefit of the doubt; there was no warning.

There is no doubt that all three of us made statements that had no business being made in private, let alone a public forum, and for that, I am very sorry. I was flat out wrong, and I apologize.

However, the manner in which the Autopia moderators chose to handle it was also wrong. two thirds of us were held responsible for the statements we made. The one third that was not is the guy responsible for the Menzerna related roll-overs you see on Autopia. Mr. Silver's statements were just as bad (if not worse) than anything Todd or I said, yet he was not given a "Bad Boy Timeout". I guess writing a check to Autopia.org gives you Carte Blanche to say whatever you want without being held accountable.

Personally, I don't want to participate on a forum that choses to enforce it's TOS in a way that's most convenient to them, with no sense of fairness. Tort is more than welcome to change my ban to permanent.

 

Todd and Superbee, welcome to DB I love reading your posts as I feel I learn a lot from them. Todd your detailed write ups are some of the best I have ever read. What autopia did is not fair to you guys at all. However I know I speak for our mod that DB is all about no extra drama. Please if you guys don't mind posting up your work, as I know everyone here woulf love to read your write ups!!!

-Corey

 

I was wondering why you guys got banned. IMO all parties should share the blame. As a side note I'm on online forum representative (customer service rep) for a dietary supplement company called Athletic Edge Nutrition. We're on several forums and I will say this company owners/CEO's as well as company reps have been banned and some permabanned for actions on the forum even if there product was being sold on the site or they were a sponsor. And to be honest the way Mr. Silver was acting he should have been banished as well.

 

Agreed. Both very welcome additions IMO.

 

From my end I agree perfectly. I simply disagreed (though did so in a beating horse way, no doubt) with Jeff and used comments he made. Honestly I appericate all the support that Super and myself recieved because it means a lot.

Jeff is not a sponsor on that forum but did harm to the sponsers that sell his products with comments he made and his inability to understand the products he sells. If I where a vendor I would be very upset with him and would apologize to the 50 or so detailers he insulted. Also, as a non sponsor of autopia he was clearly violating their spam rules.

 

So are u still using Menz? If not what is your alternative now?

I have heard rumors that 3m UF also hides, but I dont want to be the one that starts that...

 

I understand also that I am not the most popular guy because I share my opinions very bluntly.

What happened to free speech, alot of opinions are expressed bluntly. I don't post much but I've learned an awful lot from you 2 guys. Thanks

 

Yes a lot of detailers I speak to have had problems with 3M UF-SE experiencing the same type of defect return on certain paints (these are somewhat isolated incedents). The best lesson is to never skip a step IMO and when in doubt finish with a DA.

I feel bad because I was the first detailer to (on the forums) use UF with any frequency. I have been avoiding it lately because of light (I mean very light) defect return on some paints.

 

I'm glad to help out. A lot of guys that I had problems with and spoke to on the phone have been very suprised that I am not an egotistical jerk at all. However I am very blunt and to a fault opinionated and I can admit this. Also I laugh about everything and enjoy a good ribbing (perhaps I am really British?) and am sarcastic by nature. I think this gives me an online persona that may not accurately represent my actual emotions and thoughts.

However I appericate bluntness and enjoy heated discussions.

 

I also have a problem with how Autopia handles its TOS they are too conditional in my view.

Cheers,
GREG

 

I think the main reason people experience defect return is because they are skipping steps. If you actually go through all the steps and make sure the defects are removed before final jeweling, then you shouldn't experience defect return.

Look at the click n brags, show n shines, etc., a lot of people are going straight from wool to UF or 106FF with a white pad. You gotta have a middle step in there. I guess a lot of people just dont want to put in the extra time to do it right for whatever reason.

 

No offense SB but none of the moderators made the call to "BAN" you on Autopia. First off, you were not banned you were given a one week "time out" by David himself. It's his forum and he decided that the statements in your signature were inflammatory and in violation of forum rules. It had nothing to do with "paid forum" sponsors as you suggest. I would be more than happy to let David know that you would like your time out made into a perm ban.

I think you are beating a dead horse over a simple one week TO. David made a decision, it's his forum, and I would hope that you would respect his decision and move on. However, you seem to be dragging this out onto other detailingi boards overa a simple time out.

Move on my friend. It's only detailinga and nothing to get so worked up over.

I really don't think that Carlos wants dirt and drama from other forums brought here.

 

All I can really say is that I'm not happy with what Jeff Silver has said and done. It's definitely not kosher especially since he's the distributor for Menzerna USA.

Being arrogant about one's products can only go so far I'm afraid. Either way, ANY of us can get by without using Menzerna products. It's all preference anyways. I've seen many MOLers achieve similar results to many other detailers out there by simply using only Meguiar's products! In the end, it's all preference.

 

I saw the Menzerna thread before it got locked up and butchered. I too found Jeff Silvers remarks demeaning and offensive and even though Supe and Todd broke forum etiquette with the quote I feel that the temp bans came too swiftly and ultimately without warning.

Supe and Todd -- I hope you'll both decide to continue to participate once your temp ban is lifted because you both have far too much worth on the forums to just slip away.