Menz question (106FF)

Discussion in 'Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaners, and Glazes' started by Peugeot, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. Peugeot

    Peugeot Birth of a Detailer

    So I'm busy detailing this week. A fair amount of paint correction. What I'm finding is that 106FF is hard to take off.

    IP comes off very easy as does SIP.

    But 106FF is another story.

    I've been resorting to a ISA 50/50 to get it off. I work it with a LC white pad/PC. Hasn't gone sideways on me yet. Never skips. Seems to do it's job fine. Am I working it too much? I try to take it easy. However if it dries out to any degree it's murder to take off. I can get anywhere from 80-95% off fairly easily with a MF, but the last of it is like bonded to the surface. Anybody have this issue?

    I've searched around and nobody else has seemed to mention this. Either I'm a candy-ass and can't take the physical demands of detailing (I'm on car 4, day 6 :gasp:) or I'm not doing things as they should be done.

    Ans is using ISA OK? Better technique?


  2. wytstang

    wytstang Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    I haven't read of this issue myself. I do have some just haven't used it yet, I'll find out this weekend when I "jewel" the paint. Do you condition the pad before and during application?
  3. gmblack3

    gmblack3 Top 9 detailer in the US to serve you in Atlanta

    Sounds like you are using too much. What is the temp and humidity you are working in?
  4. P1et

    P1et Official DB Moderator

    I have had those issues with SIP myself. What I find is that if the humidity is over 80%, then the SIP starts gumming up and it start throwing little bits of gummed up polish over the paint. When those gummed up bits get caught in the area you're polishing, I find that it almost grinds them into the paint again. And you're right, wiping that stuff off is a PAIN in the ARSE.

    I had to resort to using just the littlest amount of polish possible and working it longer to make it bearable.
  5. Asphalt Rocket

    Asphalt Rocket Nuba Guru

    I agree with GM, it sounds like you are using too much. You only need to prime the pad with the product itself, nothing else.
  6. richy

    richy Guest

    The thing I do is remove it with a dampened mf..I don't have problems doing that.
  7. togwt

    togwt Nuba Guru

    These polishes were designed to work with high speed rotary polisher’s, utilizing friction to break-down the diminishing abrasives, while in the controlled temperature / humidity environment (working temp range 60 – 800F (15-260C) of a vehicle manufacturer’s paint shop finishing line.

    Oil cannot hide defects, but it can actually enhance them, Menzerna uses an oil in water emulsion for lubrication (white mineral oil and glycerine) as a medium to suspend the abrasives in and to reduce the heat generated from polishing; evenly spread the polish at a low rpm over the whole panel until the oils spread.

    Ensure a uniform even coat, so when you do work the polish in at higher speeds, the abrasives and oil lubrication work in tandem, if you are using a polymer after polishing it will be necessary to wipe-down the paint surface with Menzerna Top inspection, DuPont® Prep-Sol® 3919S™ is a slow evaporating cleaning solvent, but do not allow to dry on paint surface or Isopropyl alcohol (IPA) A surface wipe-down is considered good practice after polishing
  8. Peugeot

    Peugeot Birth of a Detailer

    I'm using @ 70 degrees. Primed with water and spin dry. No issues with gumming or slinging or anything on the application side. It's just when it flashes (much harder to tell opposed to SIP), it's very hard to physically remove the polish with a MF. The drier it is (sometimes it'll haze around the edges) the harder it is to take up.

    As a result, I've resorted to IPA to get the rest of it up.
  9. Nica

    Nica Banned

    :nod: yes, I've experianced the same with Menzerna. Sometimes no matter which product I use I get the same results, this happens mostly during winter though.

    I do the same IPA and lots of elbow grease, the thing that bugs me is that if you have a soft clear coat vehicle it almost makes you work twice becuase I've some times induced micro marring during the IPA wipe down :wall:
  10. Peugeot

    Peugeot Birth of a Detailer

    Funny thing is, this is not an issue with PG or SIP. They come up easily. Only the nano busts my nuggets. Gets so I kindda dread using it. Hope someone spots an error I'm making as I'm 1/2 way through with SIP and the 106 is next... :thud:

    Oh yeah, relative humidity is -eh- probably around 70%. Typical Seattle stuff. Like I said, application is great. It's just the removal.
  11. Nica

    Nica Banned

    Really just with 106, see I've had this happen to me with 85RD, 85RD3.02, Power Gloss so on and so on..but this only happend to me once during the winter months...I honestly don't know what the temperature was where I was detialing but it had to be at least 24C as I was wearing shorts but it was about -34C outside :confused:

    During the summer's here Menzerna always comes through for me hardly ever gives me any problems.

    Question, does this happend every time you use 106FF or is it just resently?
  12. reefer_bob

    reefer_bob Obsessive Detailer

    I've had this happen to me in like 90 f + in northern california.

    That's why I bought some 3m UF to use when I need to polish and it's too hot outside.
  13. Peugeot

    Peugeot Birth of a Detailer

    Well, I'm a noob, so I've only been using high end products since January. Perhaps it's too cold. I would buy that. With 4 cars so far being done exclusively with Menz products, I'm feeling more comfortable with it. It's just that 106 continues to be a struggle.

    SIP is so forgiving that on one car, I just went to LSP after it. It was on a white car and it looks pretty good. I've got the 2x500w Home Depot lights, but I guess the real test will be on a sunny day or when I get the InfraTech color matching lights. There could be microswirls - but I doubt many.

    ReferBob, you might be right and go to another finishing polish outside of ideal conditions. I'm hearing a lot of good stuff about those 3M products.
  14. Dream Machines

    Dream Machines Jedi Nuba

    I have no experience with a PC (rotary user) and 106 is a piece of cake to take off using that after 3 to 5 mins of application

    Just dry MF and slide and it's all gone

    You might be working it too long, when you work he ceramiclears too long they set like concrete
  15. togwt

    togwt Nuba Guru

    What we all seem to forget (including me) that we are using polishes that were formulated for CeramiClear paint finishes on 'normal' clear coats.

    If Menz won't cooperate I switch to 3M Ultrafina

    Alternatve polishes - 3M™ Perfect-It™ 3000 Extra Cut Rubbing Compound, 06060
    3M™ Perfect-It™ 3000 Ultrafina™ SE (US) 06068 / Ultrafina SE (UK) 50383
  16. distrbd

    distrbd New Member

    Forgive my ignorance but does it mean that 3M extra cut 06060 can be used with a pc or both rotary & a pc?
  17. Deep Gloss Auto Salon

    Deep Gloss Auto Salon DB Pro Supporter

    What size of an area are you working... try working a smaller area and the propensity for it to dry up should decrease
  18. Peugeot

    Peugeot Birth of a Detailer

    Probably a dumb question on my part, but don't orbitals work whatever media more intensly than a PC? I don't get anywhere near 5 minutes out of a set. Let's say the size 1/4 of a trunk (boot for you UK boys) lid. Pass 1 is at speed 1 to spread it out properly and then I bump up to 4 or so and give it a little pressure to start the action. I usually only do a max of 3 of those passes, then it's down to speed 1 for 1 or 2 passes for final breakdown & microswirl correcting. I move the machine at 1.5 inches per sec per "standard". After that, It hazed around the edges. 3 minutes have elapsed max.

    So when you're done with 5 minutes on a rotary, it's dry? And then it just swipes off no problem. Perhaps I'm not working it long enough?

    Thanks for all the advice everybody. In the end, if it doesn't work out, I'll give UF a shot. But I'm not whipped yet.

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