Looking for some pre-polishing pointers.

Discussion in 'Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaners, and Glazes' started by Derek8819, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    About to start my first full car(s) correction. My wife and I just bought two CPO BMWs and are looking to correct them back to new finish. I have been a Zaino user forever and see there are many other options on the market now. We had always bought new and it was easy to maintain the finish with Zaino, now we need to correct them because the Zaino only seems to bring out the swirls. I have a PC 7424XP and ZP-C. I have never used the stuff, but in my fingers it feels too thin to correct anything. I really would like to make this a one step process since I have two cars to do, but is the Zaino going to give me enough correction or should I just go ahead and buy something with more cut now. The white really makes me nervous with getting a good finish, it is already difficult to see the swirls. Here is a pic of the worst of the spots on my car.

    Pic uploader is down, I try to add again in a few.



    Attached Files:

  2. Jumbo Jet

    Jumbo Jet Jedi Nuba

    I have ZPC and have never gotten it to cut anything. I've had great results on BMW's with 1Z green can with an orange pad and PC on 5-6. If the correction requires more, I'll use 1Z yellow can, but I'll mix it 50/50 in a small bottle with green can, PC still on 5-6. Followed by Klasse AIO with a white pad and then topped with Z-2 or Z-5.
  3. Chaseme

    Chaseme DB Forum Supporter

    Do you have a pic of the cars? It helps so we can estimate paint condition and the grade of softness/hardness.
  4. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    I have used Zaino ZPC-Fusion and several Lake Country Yellow Foam pads and finished with White Pads on - GMC Envoy - Black, Nissan Maxima - Black, Nissan Armada - Black, and Toyota Pathfinder - Black, with a Porter Cable older version, and with a lot of time and speeds of 5-6, was able to remove almost all the damaged paintwork on these vehicles.
    You have to use a lot of pressure, keep the compound moist, so it will work longer, and prepare to be there awhile. This product did finish down really good with the Yellow pad and the White pad completed the finish process perfectly.
    Applied 3 layers of Zaino Z-5 + ZFX catylst, and they were like giant black mirrors.

    Again, Zaino was ahead of the curve with its "advanced,self-dissolving, fused tri-particulate diminishing abrasives with not fillers or oils" compound.

    If you decide to use this product, it would be probably better and easier to get a 5" backing plate and the appropriate sized pads, for it so you can speed up the rotation of the pads because of the smaller diameter.
    Any BMW paint color except for Jet Black, is going to be on the hard side, so you will have to take that into consideration.

    I also used Zaino Z6 QD between Z5 coats, and also as the wetting agent to compound these black beasts.

    I dont use it too much now, but way back when, it was really a good product for the time, and will always be a good, predictable, stable product.

    Dan F
  5. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    The uploader is still acting up, I tired to remote link some pics, let me know if you guys can see them.
  6. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    I just saw the pictures - Congratulations on getting some very nice vehicles !!

    The paint is not all that bad as best I can tell from the pics that you posted. I have seen much, much, worse paint damage on white Bimmers and had great success correcting it.

    The newer the BMW, the less paint they seem to be applying, but you will be ok especially since you are using a Porter Cable and not Rotary Power. You can remove those what looks like car wash induced swirls, etc. with your existing product and machine. This color paint is what I would call on the "hard" side. It takes correction well, and will stay looking great longer, once you finish it and apply a good or several layers of a good LSP.

    There are quicker compound products out there made by Menzerna and other companies. Pad selection will be important. There are newer technology foam pads available that I have found to work really good, but are fragile if used with a Rotary and dont last as long. These are the Lake Countru Hydro-Tech Cyan, Tangerine, and Crimson pads that come in 3 sizes - 6" 5" and 4". These pads cut very well and dont leave a lot of marring that then needs to be removed with another compound and pad, in my experiences.

    Then there are the newer Microfiber backing plates and microfiber pads offered by Meguiars and Optimum that are supposed to be even better and faster than traditional Foam pads. Meguiars' version comes with its own cutting compound and a finishing wax. The wax may not be as durable as you would want from what I hear, but there are lots of other choices for your LSP, especially sealants, and really durable stuff in the Collenite line, for starters..

    It never hurts to try out what you have first, and see if you can get the results you are looking for..

    There will never be a perfect solution that is as easy as a = use this, b= use this, and c- use this, as there are too many other variables to consider. You may have to adapt and find the best method for your needs.

    We are glad to help and advise you and tell you of our particular experiences with virtually every product out there and every type of machine, but in the end, you will have to just go do it and see what happens.

    You are going to be great ! Good luck with this ! Let us know how it goes; we are here for ya' !

    Dan F
  7. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    Well, I guess I don't have the touch.

    I tried today doing the correction. I thoroughly washed the car with Dawn and did and IPA wipe down. I taped off all of the plastic and paint seams.

    I made 4 sections on the hood with tape and went at it with different pad/polish combinations.

    I ended up using the hardest Uber foam pad that came with my DD kit and three different polishes that I had. Meguires Polish 7/10 on the scale, Meguires swirl remover on the 3/10 scale, and Zaino ZP-C.

    I marked my backing plate so I could confirm rotation and pushed as hard as I could with the mark still rotating plenty, I figure 3-5lbs of force. The PC was on speed 6.

    I did 4-6 passes on each section, wiped and did the same thing a second time.

    Pulled off the tape....... almost no difference, the paint was still swirled to crap.

    The Meguires sent dust EVERYWHERE and the zaino seemed to make it the smoothest, but the swirls remained.

    What to do?
  8. ACE2790

    ACE2790 Jedi Nuba

    Can you specifically name the Meg's polishes you used?
  9. Stokdgs

    Stokdgs Detail Master

    Derek8819 -

    You mentioned polishes - these are generally used after compounding on harder paint. You may need to get a compound - something like Meguiars 105, or their Meguiars Ultimate Compound which is a more user-friendly version of 105, and is available at most auto supply stores.

    You mentioned the hardest Uber pad you had - what color is it? There may be more aggressive pads available.

    You have to work the Zaino ZPC-Fusion until its gone, and more than 4-6 passes. You have to use it multiple times until you achieve the desired correction you want. I wore out a few Lake Country Yellow Pads doing those 4 black SUV's to get the correction I wanted to get.

    With the right pad and compound combination, you can do this. Again, its not just point and click, it requires you to continually assess the paint and adjust your technique to fit the condition of the paint, the pad and product used, and your pressure and how many times you make passes.
    There are no set numbers, etc., for any of this- too many variables involved. When you wipe the product off and you are satisfied with the result, then you are done with that section.

    I doubt you will ever hurt your paint with a Porter Cable, unless its very thin because it was compounded heavily many times before you got it.
    Your Bimmers look very new and well cared for already.

    Let us know what you are thinking and how you are doing. You do have the ability and will learn to find the right technique !

    Dan F
  10. P1et

    P1et Official DB Moderator

  11. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    Thanks for the pep talk guys, but I obviously don't have the right stuff for what it takes.

    I called up a professional, Rejuvinators Detailing out of Gulfport for some help, I am going to have him come take a look at it.

    I thought about ording the Meguires MF system, but at that point I it is just more money I could have paid someone to do it right.
  12. ACE2790

    ACE2790 Jedi Nuba

    Haha, well although I would've taken it on as a challenge more so than defeat, there's no shame in knowing when to cut your losses and bow out.
  13. P1et

    P1et Official DB Moderator

    Mate, you're going to have to pay someone around $250 at the very LEAST for a decent paint correction job. You have two cars. That's $500. For a lot LESS than that you can do it all yourself. Detail one of your friend's cars and you'll make your money back immediately. And we'll help you through it!
  14. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    too bad im not in Florida...... Id totally drive over and help you out, anybody help this guy out before he hires someone?
  15. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    Wow guys, thank you so much for the support. I really want to do this myself, I am obviously just concerned that I won't get the results I desire. I do not think I will be completely happy anyway since the car has SO MUCH orange peel.

    Do you guys reccomend the 105 with the Uber pads or the 300 with the MF system? Do I need the MF 301 as well since they call it a finishing wax?
  16. Chaseme

    Chaseme DB Forum Supporter

    We've all been there before; where we just can't seem to make a dent in our work. But you learn from every detail and the next one is always better.
  17. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    I have D300, and yet to use it, ( I cannot put down my Menz products) it is not necessarily to use 301, you can follow up with your choice of wax.

    My advice, slow down, take your time and don't give up. If you want a good resource go on Adams polishes site, they have some pretty comprehensive videos and tips.

    are you going for 100% correction? or just to clean it up a bit and remove some light swirls etc?
  18. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    Definetly not going for 100% correction, I just want to get 75-80% of the swirls out. I am hearing good things about the MF stuff, I think I am going to try to D300 with a MF pad and follow up with my ZP-C with an Uber pad, then Zaino AIO followed by Z-2 or Z-5. Good Plan?
  19. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    AIO is not necessary, if you are going for gloss with ZP_C then you should be good to go with z5..... or Z2. Or just use AIO instead of. You may be good go after D300, check under an LED or Hallogen light, if you are happy with the results the move on to the LSP stage (Z2 or Z5) you have white so its a little more forgiving.
  20. Derek8819

    Derek8819 Virgin Detailer

    Thanks guys, just made ANOTHER order from DetailerDomain, I will update, I want to try to wetsand a few chips while I am at it as well.

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