If waterless washes aren't good for finishes, then

Discussion in 'Car Detailing Product Discussion' started by pokerfad, May 2, 2012.

  1. pokerfad

    pokerfad Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    why do the premium detailing supply companies manufacturer and sell them? Is it purely a money making thing? It'd be the equivalent of Weight Watcher's selling cookies and pizza to it's clients, no?
  2. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    Who said they aren't good for finishes?
  3. K3RMiTdot

    K3RMiTdot DB Forum Supporter

    ONR is one of the best!
  4. pokerfad

    pokerfad Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    I've read it multiple places. I guess a lot of it depends on your process, but if you have a soiled vehicle and you use a waterless wash product that you should expect swirls as a result.
  5. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    I am not a ONR user, but alot of guys here are, its all about the technique............also, most people from what I gather use ONR during the winter, then spring time the correct the cars,
  6. pokerfad

    pokerfad Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    That seems logical. I guess I am speaking more along the lines of something like this: Let's say you did a full wash and detail and then next day your vehicle is in a downpour and get some dirt on it. You grab some quick detailer to clean it off rather than wait and re-wash it when the time permits. I have done this many times and now I am reading that it's not advisable and it's better to just wait and wash it again the proper way.
  7. Kilo6_one

    Kilo6_one DB Forum Supporter

    yes, that will cause marring, (what you are doing is not wrong, its just going to mar the paint work)

    there are some good videos on Youtube how to properly use a waterless wash using a two bucket method.

  8. BlakRam

    BlakRam Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    Waterless wash and no rinse wash are two different things. I use ONR and Opti Clean, both work great. If the car was grimy, I would rinse the car first to knock off most of the debris.
  9. 911Fanatic

    911Fanatic DB Pro Supporter

    As stated above, common sense HAS to come into play at some point. If your car is "dirty" and you use a waterless or rinseless wash, you deserve the swirls you get. ALWAYS pre rinse the crap out of your vehicle to remove any loose debris. This will cut down the chances of marring your paint considerably.
  10. bmwdetailer

    bmwdetailer Virgin Detailer

    The biggest fear of a waterless carwash is scratching or maring the finish of the vehicle. It can happen very quickly if not properly used right. In certain cities in Texas and around the states and the world, water is becoming hard to come by. Don't get me wrong, we still have water, but we are limited to how we use water and how much we use. Our carwash wash shut down to lack of water. When detailing in California, the enviroment was an issue with runoff. California is actively after detailers and carwashers who put water on the ground. I recieved a ticket from the city just because water was on the ground even though I had the equipment and vacuum to pick up the waste water. I made the business decision to use waterless carwash. I could have kept using water, but the city would eventually shut my business down and suspend my license. The city had done that to a few businesses already.

    Enough of the sad story, three key elements to using waterless must be followed. 1) have a good emulsifying waterless wash. 2)Have a good microfiber towel a 70/30 blend at about 55 or 65 grams, I think thats the weight. 3) is the proper technique. This is the most important of the three key elements. The proper technique is using a "S" like pattern with the MF towle folded into fours. I can go more into detail if people want. Just let me know.

    Waterless is offered by premium detailing chemical companies because they follow what is going on in the world, like lack of water. Detailers, DIYers, carwashes and people who care about the enviroment are making the switch at large numbers. These companies are in business to make money and waterless carwash is becoming a goto altyernitive to using water. It is just another tool for us detailers to use. Is it the cure all, no but it works great. We have implemented it at our dealership and customers love the finish on there vehicles. Instead of 80 gallons per wash, we use about 8oz on average per vehicle. We use to wash 150 cars a day that is on average 12000 gallons a day. We save a lot a water now and put out great quality washes.

    Paul Weidler
  11. Chaseme

    Chaseme DB Forum Supporter

    Interesting indeed Paul. My sister and brother in law are moving to Austin in a couple months.

    I know many beach cities in CA have rules due to drainage, but water restriction doesn't seem to be the primary reason for most cities.

    S style? I assume you mean kinda like wiping a counter top? Never run over the same section twice? Always keep it lubricated?
  12. bmwdetailer

    bmwdetailer Virgin Detailer

    Actually there are a lot of cities that do have water shortages. Not only in America but through out other countries. Follow these links http://www.carwash.com/articles/85590-at-home-carwashing-banned-in-ma, http://www.carwash.com/articles/water-shortage-cancels-firefighter-charity-washes-2, http://www.carwash.com/articles/are-you-using-world-water-day-to-your-advantage-2, http://www.carwash.com/articles/new-water-use-rules-to-nix-at-home-washing-2

    This is just a few examples of water shortages. Here in Austin we are still in stage 2 possibly will hit stage 3 in the summer.

    To answer the pattern question, yes. you need to mist the panel and achieve 100% coverage without the waterless product running to the ground. After a few cars you gane the skill to not have the product run. Fold the towel into fours and place in middle of hood and using the "S" pattern or "Snaking " the towel towards you. Kep the pressure light. When finished with that pass flip the towel over and you should see a line of dirt and debris on the leading edge of the towel. if the vehicle is excessively dirty you might need to make a second pass. Always use a clean side of the towel by flipping and folding the towel. I typically use a second towel to polish up after the dirt and debris has been removed.

    Waterless carwash is another tool for detailers and carwashers. If your city or wherever you live is not short of water count it a blessing. I would suggest to at least be familiar with the product and the proper techique. It will save you a lot of heartache and time. hope that helps.
  13. LostHighway

    LostHighway Jedi Nuba

    Water restrictions are likely to be a growing issue in large chunks of the US (globally actually, parts of the UK have had hose pipe bans in recent summers). We've been mining groundwater at far above the recharge rate in large sections of the US for decades and in some places groundwater levels have dropped by 100' or more. Irrigated agriculture is the biggest culprit, California's Central Valley alone uses about four cubic kilometers of water per year, but development patterns and stupid uses (traditional golf courses in Arizona) contribute too. Barring major breakthroughs in desalinization efficiency or energy sources access to water is only going to get tighter. Detailing is a comparatively tiny collateral issue in terms of water consumption but many of us are going to have to learn to love, or at least tolerate, rinse-less and water-less washing.

    Florida, Arizona, Texas and California face the worst water shortage issues but Nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas and parts of Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Arkansas aren't to far behind. Be glad you're in Minnesota.
  14. cleung

    cleung Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    We don't have a water shortage or any water use restrictions where I live but this would be something interesting to try in the winter time just to stay out of the cold and keep things from freezing up.
  15. bmwdetailer

    bmwdetailer Virgin Detailer

    Some of my higher end clients in California had multiple cars in garages and I would pull my detail vehicle inside or just bring in my caddy's and perform a complete detail with engine inside their garage or even carpeted hangers. Some of those accounts or customers did not mind me detailing on rainy day because their car never left the garage. I enjoyed it because I was out of the heat. Now I am in Texas and the heat is real intense.

    There are now different types of waterless carwashes coming to market. I am not talking different brands. There will be a waterless wash for a person just washing a car and a waerless wash for a person detailing a car. When I have used waterless carwashes in the past, the waterless wash would leave the silicones and waxes behind. The latest washes are removeing the silicones and wax and leaving paint ready for detailing. Our industry keeps getting better!
  16. Bunky

    Bunky DB Forum Supporter

    A two bucket wash is not safe if done improperly.

    One aspect with technology changes, some diehards (some that others hold in high regard for guidance) refuse to accept it. In part because they spent their time "selling" something and now consider it an ego hit to consider something new.

    The other aspect is it is not all or nothing. You can prerinse a car prior to using a waterless or rinseless product (not a cardinal sin that will end you to wherever). It may not be "true" rinseles or waterless but it does use less water which is often the greater goal.
  17. cleung

    cleung Any Rag Vehicle Washer

    So this waterless wash/detail thing is all pretty new to me, can someone explain it to me and the products to use or point me to somewhere where I can get this info?

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