how can i tell when a polish has 'broken down'

I tried my new Flex this weekend - using SIP w/ LC orange pad followed by 106FF w/ LC white pad, working at speed 6 for each. It worked pretty good, but I'm a little disappointed b/c there are still 20% of the swirls remaining.

When do you know the polish has 'broken down' ? No matter how long I worked the polish, it seemed to be the same consistency as when i started, it never hazed or dried up. After a minute or 2 at speed 6, pieces of polish (about triple the size of a grain of salt) would start forming. These pieces where not dry, if i pinched them they would mush not flake away. When I finished buffing the polish was a thin moist layer that wiped away easily.

I'm in NJ, about 4 miles from the shore. It was in the high 50's / low 60's today, overcast and humidity was 75%. I was working in my non-heated garage w/ the door open. Could the colder weather have prevented the polish from breaking down ?

The car was a 1999 wrangler - my teenage daughter's. It didn't have a lot of swirls to begin w/ but did have some very deep scratches - looked like the previous owner used the hood as a place to store boxes or something.

I'm hoping for suggestions comments before I try the same procedure on my bmw.

 

It sounds as if you were using too much product...especially with the 106, you really don't need very much at all. 106 becomes clear when it breaks down and almost entirely disappears.

 

You were using too much product. Like Richy said it will turn clear, like oil sitting on top of water. As far as not all the scratches coming out you either need to go back over them several times with the sip/orange pad or move up to power gloss, M105, or 3M extra cut.

 

I struggled w/ the SIP, just wasn't cutting like i thought it should. The 106 was easier to work w/, it applied quicker and finished up w/ a thinner coat - almost disappearing as you mentioned.

The SIP orange pad was more saturated and lost it's 'structure' compared to the 106 white pad when i finished. Also, my best results w/ SIP were on the first two panels I did. Both signs that the pad got too saturated w/ product.

 

Looked at my pads and noticed the orange pad is concave on the foam side. The Velcro side is very soft in the middle while the outer edge is stiff - like a donut. I don't remember it being this way before I started, is this normal for an orange pad ?

My other pads - white and blue - are not concave and the Velcro side is stiff throughout.

 

Diminishing Abrasives
Diminishing abrasives require friction, to activate and progressively reduce there size until they become a finite milled dust; they are buffered or cushioned in a lubricating water-based oil film emulsion, usually in a semi-liquid paste. Wet polishes eliminate the heat caused by buffing; heat causes gloss loss. Some very abrasive compound polishes don’t feel abrasive to the touch because the particles are formulated in a solvent or polymer oils in a water-based emulsion and are not released without friction.

The abrasive start off as large particles, which removes the most paint, they are then reduced in size into finer and finer particles, removing progressively less of the paint surface, by the friction caused by the foam pads contact with the paint surface. By varying the size of the abrasive a differing cut is obtained, so the more the abrasives are reduced in size the finer the resultant finish until the particles are reduced to a very fine powder, which in turn produces a burnished surface shine.

It is important to know when a polish has broken down because if you take it too far it will dust and you will re-introduce surface marring, conversely if you don’t work diminishing abrasives sufficiently they will cause surface marring; this is due to the size of the abrasive and its cutting ability, were as once an abrasive has broken down it will burnish the surface as opposed to cutting it

Polish to a ‘haze’ - when a polish "flashes" from a liquid paste to a light semi-dry haze; its colour changes from the polish colour to almost transparent (akin to the look of Vaseline); the polish has then broken down and is ready for removal. The point at which a polish is fully broken down comes with experience but a good yard stick is when the polish has become clear and can easily be wiped off.

- Diminishing Abrasives- - Detail University - Auto Detailing Forum

 

Mine aren't that way..are you using too much pressure? Which pads are they?

 

They are LC CSS pads. I also looked at the my Flex's Velcro backing plate, right in the middle where the bolt is there is a half-dollar size edge where the velcro melted.

I'm thinking a couple of explanations:

- the pad was defective, transferring heat to the backing plate and melting it

- the flex was defective, melting the plate and damaging the pad (unlikely b/c the white pad didn't have any problems)

- the pad got saturated w/ product, so i increased pressure for more cutting. this caused the pad to break down allowing heat to transfer to the back plate and melting the velcro.


I'll post pictures once ImageShack comes back online.

 

Here are the pictures I mentioned.

Based on all the feedback it appears I over saturated the pad, I ordered more pads today. Rather then trying to get as far as I can w/ one pad I'm going to split the car into 1/3 sections, using a new pad on each section to make sure it's always fresh.

 

Yea... that pad is not supposed to look like that, and the flex isn't looking right either... strange...

 

I agree, very strange. Were you putting a lot of pressure on the pads? With the 3401, you can just let the machine do all the work.

 

Once the pad got saturated it was not cutting like I thought it should - so I probably applied too much pressure to compensate.

I'm going to try it again on a different car (first one was a test car), this time w/ less product and splitting the car into 1/3 sections using a fresh orange pad for each section.