Curing/layering Carnauba?

OK, after 2 days searching the nett, i only end up with more Qs than answers...

Putting on 3 layers off the Victoria Concurso wax on the EVO...

Can Carnauba wax (without cleaners) be layerd?

I find two answers to this....yes AND no..so i get kinda confused...

-some say that the the next application/layer of carnauba wax will just blend with the old previous layer off wax (nomatther when you do it)

-some sugest spitshine (cold water before applying the next layer)

-some say carnauba wax needs to "cure/sweat" for 24 houers, others say you can apply right after you buff off the last layer.

So....is there any point applying more than 2 coats of carnauba wax on the car...usualy it doesnt have cleaners in it, but as many knows "same cleans same" or whatever that was in English....

Help?

 

I usually spitshine and wait about 2 hours in-between layers and I have had no problems.Victoria is a nice wax to layer.(just my 2 cents).

 

Truls it all depends on the wax your using. I mean if your using one of Zymol's high end wax then yes you have to wait 24hs for the wax to cure/sweat but that's just Zymol. For Victoria I would have to agree with 02CAMSS just wait a two hours or a bit more and you should be good to go with Vitctoria that is....but I have to admit I don't do the spitshine...oh and yes Victoria is one of those wax's that look incredable good layerd...but just my opinion...hope this helps.

 

OK, thanks guys..

Yepp layer victoria wax looks great...jost did the last wipedown now and it looks glossyer than ever......

 

Nice...so um...where are the pictures

 

loading at this moment.....

 

carlos you lied... you do not need to let zymol waxes sweat for 24 hours.I have contacted zymol in the past... you need to let the oils sweat out for a few hours (3-4) and then level the wax with either cold water of field glaze, from there you can apply a second coat.

There are acouple schools of thought on layering waxes, some say you cannot, there is no way the oils and solvetns in the new level will discolve the previous level

there is also the school of though that each layer adds more, both in protection and looks. you can throw as many layers on and each will do something

There is also the school of though that you an layer them, he protection added is little to none however the look of the wax impoves with each coat.

I personaly feel there is a very sharp dimishing return as far as protection with the wax, you will let some extra protection with ach layer however the main reaso for layering multiple coats is for the looks, the ptical range changes with each coat.. its really cool to watch

anyone who has tried multiple coats of vintage will understand this addition of looks very well. I think vintage shows it best.



so back to VW (which i love btw), you an add multiple coats no problem, i would follow the same idea as with zymol. Let the wax sweat (although VW dosent look like buffertrails when sweating it will still sweat), give the car a quick spray down with VW quick detailer acouple hours later and you should be good to add another coat.

 

Did a wipedown with cold water between the layers, and it seems to look great that way..

thhanks for making it more clear to me...learning something new everyday...

 

hey Calgary, so how to you use Vintage? Do you do the initial buff 3-4 hours later after applying?

 

Yea, well see I've applied Vintage many ways from no curing time, to back to back layers and then applying one coat and waiting the Zymol recomended 3 to 4hrs to applying other coats after 24hrs and to me applying a second or third or fourth coat of Vintage sworks best after 24hrs. Now the one thing I don't do when layering Vintage is give it the Field Glaze wipe down, I do the Field Glaze once I'm done with the second coat....what I mean is that if I'm going to apply two coats of Vintage then on the second coat I do the Field Glaze. On the first coat I just wipe, let it sit for 24hrs and then wipe it down and then apply the second coat, this method has worked reallywell for me and I prefer it...but like I said that's how I like to do it...oh and only my vehicles have ever received two coats of Vintage.

 

Great topic... Good info here.

What does Swissvax reccomend for multiple coats I wonder...

Edit: When you say cold water, are we talking ice cold (35 degF) or like cold tap water (60 degF)?

 

cold as in a spray bottle that has been in the freezer long enough for the top of the water to turn to ice (only a few mm of ice) and the rest still water

 

The product I currently use is 36% carnuba and all natural, cure time between applications is minutes

 

is that the set time or the cure time? the set time is also know as the bond time, this is how long the directions say to leave the wax on the paint before removing. The cure time is how long it takes the oils or solvetns in the wax to evaoprate allowig for full hadness of the wax

 

I was a little confused when I wrote it, I meant set time, cure time is unknown, however the finish last for months.

 

Set time just means the time that it typically takes for the solvents in the wax to evaporate enough for the wax to have a bond with the surface. But this timeframe doesn't necessarily correspond with the time required for all of them to diminish enough for you to apply another coat.

Zymol wants you to let the wax sweat for 24 hours because that is a standard amount of time that they know will be enough for all the solvents in the wax to fully evaporate. The use of the cold water in between the layers is basically to help shock the wax into curing more quickly. The cold temperature helps to make the first layer bond hard with the surface once the solvents are gone, which is why you want to do it before applying another layer. You want to make sure it is truly bonded so the new solvents in the second layer don't help to pull up the first layer.

 

good info, the only things i will disagree with are the 24 cure time, I have contated the technical director for zymol on a few ocasions and he says between 3-4 hours is enough tme to cure. The cold water does help harden the wax like you said, but it also levels it giving a better shine. The bumps and vallies are evened out giving a more even look.

Also on a side note, zymol does not use Solvents, they use oils, which is the reason they sweat. I have heard from good authority that the wax formulas call for enzymes from pigs and cow stomachs but the current chemist subsitures the animal oils for more natural oils.

This is an area of contention, i know and i will get flammed by someone but I have talked to people both involved with zymol and not who provide the same info.

But we are talking samantics here..... just thought i would throw the info out there

 

^^ That is good to know. I didn't know that they weren't specifically "solvents." It isn't like it matters a lot since the results and the procedures are the same, but it is still interesting.

And I didn't mean to use the 24 hour period as a solid timeframe, more as a reference to the "why" you have to wait.

Knowing that it will sufficiently sweat in a shorter timeframe is really beneficial because it means that you can technically apply at least one extra layer in a one day timespan, which is really helpful.

 

the 24 hour time frame is more of a sealent thing that has carried forward to wax. Its a good genaeral guideline but there are waxes and sealents that dont require that much time to cure. And its great when you can wash and wax in the morning and have a second coat of wax on by evening. There is no substitute for the aged zymol look but if a customer wants a second coat in one day then it is possible.

As for the oils/solvents thing. They do the same thing, however the oils are more expensive. It does however allow you to layer (i have done tests with half a car with one coat and half with two and the side with two lasted longer then the side with one). The oils are expensive which is part (that and some wicked marketing) that the zymol range is so expensive.

 

Great info being shared here :thumb: Keep it coming.

As to the 24hr waiting period, I personaly prefer it. That's how I applied 5 coats of Vintage on my Lexus :nod: yup took 5 days to do it :thumb: I was very happy with the end results.

Mind you though, I never tried the cold water method, I just use Field Glaze after 3-4hrs (or so) and then the next day prior to the next coat of Vintage...but like I said that's just my personal preference. My way of thinking is that 24hrs is better well just in case....that's my reason and I'm sticking to it..no reall scientific theary :shrug:

Has anyone else applied a second coat of Vintage after 24hrs?

Oh actually where I got the 24hrs is from Paul Dalton he's the one that suggested I do it every 24hrs and it works well for me.