Anyone work on Enzo Paint?

Discussion in 'Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaners, and Glazes' started by blackjz, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    Well, a friend of mine called me and he asked me to detail one of his cars.. i did his F430 2weeks ago..and now an ENZO...i said to him what on earth i will have a chance to detail enzo..i am not prepared for i need to ask you guys, has anyone had experience doing enzo? since it's very different, carbon fiber body and all the stuff i don't understand...he said he's owned it for years and only been driven for's been sitting in garage..lots of dusts n swirl...

    so guys any recommendation of products and tools i should think of using? for polishes of course coz i am planning to use CR for LSP..

  2. togwt

    togwt Nuba Guru

    You might ask TH0001 Todd Helme -Phone: 407.963.1444
    Email: he is about the best paint renovation detailer of exotic autos
  3. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    thanks buddy i ll try to email him
  4. Nica

    Nica Banned

    I've never polished and Enzo or an MC12 but I did have the opportunity to inspect the paint of both vehicles. Now seeing and touching are different then physically polishing but from what I saw and have been told you treat the vehicles just like any other vehicle. Yes, they have carbon fiber panels but you just treat them as you would any vehicle, meaning start with the least aggressive combo and work your way up. Oh and I strongly suggest a good paint gauge, that is a must as most carbon fiber panels need to be treated cautiously.

    Good luck with the Enzo and you are one lucky, lucky, lucky detailer. These vehicles are the pinnacle of Ferrari...well at least I think so :woo: :woo:

    Ooooh, please take lots and lots of pictures :D
  5. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    thanks for the input carlos..yes i am extremely very lucky to get an enzo to detail :D

    i am thinking that carbon fiber panels are very sensitive and easy to get hot..does that mean that i have to keep the speed down to 1500rpm max and can't use polish that more abbrasive than PO203 or OPT polish? haven't got a chance to take picts so i have no idea what combo i should use...

    paint gauge? what do you recommend carlos? defelsko? or highline meter's just fine?
  6. Nica

    Nica Banned

    :nod: carbon fiber panels are extremely sensitive, I would recommend you keep the speed nice and low, carbon fiber panels do get hot much faster. So yes, keep the RPM's low, to be honest carbon fiber panels are often quite easy to correct an don't tend to require an aggresive combo...I would suggest Menzerna SIP with a polishing pad (3M UK Black foam pad for example) follow that up with Menzerna 85RD with a finishing pad (3M UK Blue foam pad for example).

    I've never used PO203 so I can't really comment on it, but from what I've read it should do just fine.

    As for paint gauges, you need a paint gauge that can do plastic/carbon fiber panels the one I have is the PosiTector 200, not a cheap tool but it when your dealing with an Enzo last thing you want to do is burn through the clear coat or paint.
  7. Reflect

    Reflect DB Forum Supporter

    The key is to start off very very very SLOWWW, especially on the carbon fiber panels and the plastic panels. You have to take your time on this one. Good luck.
  8. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    Got this reply from TOdd:
    The Enzo's are Carbon Fiber, but this doesn't really produce any different effects in and off itself. On some of the older carbon fiber Ferrari's such as the early F40's and to my knowledge all of the F50's, you can see the weave texture in the paint. I have safely polished defects as deep as .2 mils out of them with no alteration in texture and no evidence in striking through the high spots. I feel comfortable saying that the paint will tolerate polishing the same as any other type of paint.

    Enzo specific, I found the paint to be rather hard, which is in comparison to the softer paint's I have found most moderation Ferrari's to have. The 360's are particularly easy to polish, the PPG paint on the F430's in noticeably harder, but still fairly soft. The Enzo by comparison requires a bit more work to achieve similar amounts of correction.

    I am unsure of the polishing machine and the available polishes/pads/etc you have but I would recommend doing all of your compounding and cutting with M105 of a Porter Cable, using a 4 inch Orange Lake Country pad, which is my take on Kevin Brown's excellent method.

    Prime the pad with Meguiars M105 by pushing a lot of product into the pad with your thumbs, so that it the pores are primed, then push the face of the pad against a towel to remove excess polish. Add a drop of M105 to the primed pad and polish at speed 4-5, using A LOT of pressure and good technique (slow arm speed, overlapping passes). Work under halogen lights or any type of light that allows you to inspect the paint as you work (this is absolutely key, you cannot guess this one). Simply work until the defects are removed (this make take several minutes of work time per section maybe more). As long as the pad doesn't dry out (the polish make look completely dry or even disappointed on the surface) you can continue the work the section.

    This is the single most effective method I have used for BOTH cutting and medium polishing, and combines them into one step. So how can this method produce as good as (if not better then) polishing with dedicated products on a rotary buffer? It seems to easy...

    The non diminishing abrasives found in M105 change the game completely. With traditional (diminishing abrasives) you can only buff over the life of the polish, that is until the abrasives have fully broken down. The polish has a life cycle if you will, and once exhausted and broken down, more polish (with fresh abrasives) must be introduced. However if we could 'freeze' the abrasives in ultra fine forum, right before they loose effective cutting ability, and apply these abrasives over and over we can have an unlimited amount of cut (in theory) while still leaving behind a very refined surface.

    By applying the product with a porter cable we significantly lengthen the play time (M105 dries on a rotary fairly quickly) and we can apply these abrasives in a consistent and constant form. If the defects are deep (paint cutting) we simply apply this technique for a longer period of time, slowly grinding the surface down. If the defects are light (swirl removal) we simply shorten the working time until the defects are removed.

    There are some draw backs because we are taking abrasives that are already ultra fine.

    The pad must be kept clean! As you polish the paint you are lifting the removed paint into the pad, where it can cause the abrasives to clump together and interfere with the delicate finishing ability of this application. (The clumped abrasives act like they are larger/they don't break down) and you will begin to leave micro hazing on the paint. I like to clean the pad by spinning it and pushing my finger into it (while running) with a terrycloth until I can no longer remove the polish.

    You will still need a couple of pad's through out the car. I use 5-6, even with frequent cleaning.

    You will be fatigued, you must use 20-30 lbs of pressure on the face of the machine.

    Do a section of the Enzo at a time, working until you remove as much defects as you feel comfortable with.

    If you have done the process correctly you will notice that the paint will be pretty much defect free, but there will likely be some micro hazing that is ultra fine (visible from inches away). You can, if you like go straight to your favorite finishing combination.

    I cut with the DA, then go 106ff/fa on a gray pad, or if time permits SIP/green CMA Eurfoam/85rd grad pad on a rotary

    'The Art of Detailing'
    Todd Helme's Bella Macchina
  9. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    is using DA better than rotary in this case?
  10. Nica

    Nica Banned

    Na, you'll be fine with a rotary. That is if your comfortable with a rotary, on a vehicle like this you want to be completely competent with a rotary other wise if you feel more comfortable with a DA use a DA, nothing wrong with that. DA will get the job done just as a rotary will, just may take a bit longer but hey with a vehicle like this why not take your time and enjoy it :thumb:
  11. blk45

    blk45 Jedi Nuba

    Todd is very knowledgable and gives great advice. I just corrected a Murcie that is all carbon fiber except for the roof and the doors. You can see my process in this thread:

    If you have any questions, let me know. I did all of my correction with the rotary. I just kept the pressure light and the rpms to 1500.
  12. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    yes i use to do all the correction using makita n 3403, only use the DA for head n tail lamps...but if DA is safer, I will switch to DA..i have time in the world to do the least the owner said so LOL
  13. dschia

    dschia Jedi Nuba

    Nice info there, his description for the use of m105 is quite unique. He has basically listed out many of the possible problem that may happened with the use of m105 and that is what i faced! Probably going to try his method to see how it works.

    All the best in your detail...
  14. Denzil

    Denzil Guest

    Interesting... so I'm guessing the method Todd explained is the Kevin Brown method then? I never really knew what the Kevin Brown method was but I think I know now. I hope Todd can chime in here. His explanation does make sense though.
  15. Pats300zx

    Pats300zx Official DB Moderator

    Here is the Kevin Brown method for M105. Kevin posted it over on Autopia.

    To avoid buffer hop and swirling, do exactly what you're doing- CLEAN the pad often.
    Otherwise, the residue build-up on the pad's face can cause swirls- and pad hop! Once there's a micro layer of abrasive attached to the pad, (and devoid of lubrication), it's literally STUCK to the pad... It cannot swirl and roll about freely. So it drags across the paint, may grab & attach momentarily, then release (and on and on and on).

    In a nutshell, a good procedure when using M105 with a foam pad for mild or final-polishing (rotary applied):

    1. Prime the pad THOROUGHLY.
    Rub it in with your hand. It'll take a bit more than you're used to applying. It takes quite a bit to load (more than a typical polish, as there's no petro-based oils or solvents to aid in spreading).
    Take the extra time to completely cover the face and outer curved-edge of the pad. .

    2. Apply a bead of M105 to the surface, pull it in, and polish at low speed (1000 rpm).
    USING CONSISTENT MODERATE DOWNWARD PRESSURE, apply for 1-3 passes, or until the M105 is just starting to dry. Remove all residue. CHECK FOR HEATING OF THE PAINT. Most guys that polish with a rotary know how HOT the surface can get when using a finishing pad.

    3. Turn the machine off. Nylon-brush the outer edge of the pad to remove the stuck-on abrasive. Reapply as needed to complete polishing. If you've got compressed air, blow the pad clean.

    Occasionally, remove the pad, install it onto your orbital (if you have one). Press the pad into a microfiber towel, turn the machine on, and work the pad into that towel for approximately 10 seconds- It'll remove most of the moisture and abrasive from the pad, keeping it fresh, and free of contamination and saturation.

    In my experience, M105 works best with a foam pad on when it's used on smooth paint (or paint that has been pre-polished with wool). A quick pre-wipe of the panel with M105 and a microfiber towel can really help out, too.
    In only takes 10-20 seconds to do, so why not?

    These cleaning procedure works for any liquid, really- It's so important to remove residue from the pad as you polish.
    Abraded paint and spent particulate can really mess up an otherwise perfect polish job.
  16. Denzil

    Denzil Guest

    Wow, seems like a pretty thorough process. I think it'll be a while for me to get the KB method down pat (no pun intended of course Pat! ;)).

    Thanks for sharing this Pat. Out of curiosity, have you tried it?
  17. blk45

    blk45 Jedi Nuba

    Clear your PM box. I tried to reply but your box is full.
  18. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    yeah i ve heard so many hypes about M105...I just the new 3M extra rubbing compound 06085...they said that it's almost the same as M105..have to get M105 i guess
  19. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    PM box cleared sir
  20. blackjz

    blackjz Jedi Nuba

    Mine is cleared...i guess now yours is full :)

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