PT200 - Only gauge for fiberglass?

First let me say that towgt's write-up and Nica's feedback are great. I did a lot of searching, but wanted to confirm that the PT200 is the only gauge that can be used to measure depth in fiberglass. From what I have gathered, if I did purchase the PT200 it would be best just to get the basic one and save money because of the way basecoats/clearcoats are allowed to dry nowadays. Is that correct?

In regards to the fiberglass gauges, I found some of these online and wanted to know what you guys think about them:

Ultrasonic thickness gauge $1,000

2000B Series Ultrasonic Thickness Gauge $1,095

Will these work? Maybe you guys that know a lot about paint depth gauges take a look at the exact specs posted.

I really like what Nica has; the PT200 and PT6000, but that is quite an investment. I have not decided if I will go that route yet.

Thanks in advance

 

Answers that.....

I guess the PT200 is the only depth gauge for fiberglass in use. Thanks :thumb:

 

Sorry for the late response there ShinySideUp been a tad busy but here is what I've recently found out and put to test.

I originally purchased the PosiTector 200 Basic model because of it's acuracy, now I was told that the way vehicles are painted even at factory is that the layers of paints are put on wet...so this would cause the PosiTector 200 Advance to not read each layer accordingly...how ever I assumed that the clear coat would be applid the same way and I was mistaken. I remember I once owned a Honda Civic and I got rear ended...any who it was time to get it repaired I was given the vehicle back repaired and repainted but they did not install the clear coat on it, I was told to set up an appointment again to get the clear coat re-applied..well so after chatting with Jayplay, who does have a PosiTector 200 Advance and he was telling me about his experiance with the machine and what his findings were and well I had to try it out for my self.

Having used the Advanced model I can understand what Jayplay was telling me, yes the Advance model will read the base coat mixed with the paint as well becuase of the wet on wet applycation but the clear coat section is seperate...now the only thing that I've been trying to figure out is which reading is what :shead:...I mean the gauge takes three readings or two, I followed Jayplay's recommendation and used the gauge in two layer mode and it works well.

The gauge takes a bit of knowledge but it works well...not cheap either but well worth it if you ask me.

As to the gauges you posted there wondering about them...I'm not sure about the Ultrasonic thickness gauge, don't recal reading up on it..but the 2000B Series Ultrasonic Thickness Gauge seems a bit odd..I mean it's claiming to measure the thickness of metallic and non-metallic materials such as steel, aluminum, titanium, plastics, ceramics, glass and any other good ultrasonic wave conductor as long as it has parallel top and bottom surfaces...I did quite a bit or reading and re-search and there was only one gauge that was able to do what this one claims to do and it was well over $10,000.00 for such a gauge...I'll see if I still have the link of the gauge I'm refering to as I can't even remember the name of it ...but you know what I could be mistaken and this gauge could be the real deal...but from what I've read and manufactures I spoke to there are very few gauges that can do what this gauge claims to do...I don't know, I would to be proven wrong here as if it doe what it claims to do I'd purchase it my self but let me know what you find out about it...I'll see what I find from the links I have saved from where I was searching/reading on the gauges.

 

Nica,

Thanks for your response.

So are you saying that the PT200 Advanced is worth the extra money if you can figure out how to differentiate which layer is base and which is clear?

I would have thought it displayed it as clear on top and base on bottom, but it doesn't seem so, since that would be the obvious.

Body shops around here (at least from what I have seen) spray the base and clear in the same appointment. I don't know if they're dry, but I've never heard of anyone having to go back for the other half of the job. So does this mean the coats are considered wet and the PT200 Advanced would not make a difference compared to the PT200 Basic?

I was suspicious of those two gauges in my first post just as you were. I also did not understand how one can do everything for such a small amount of money (In comparison) but I do not want to be the guinea pig for it.

Thank for passing on those links, I look forward to it.

On another note, is the PT6000 more accurate than the PT DFT? Looking at the specs of the PT6000 said plus/minus 0.05 mils + 1% and the PT DFT is plus/minus .1 mils + 3%.

 

with the 200 adv it can read 3 layers, I use it in 2 layer mode as I find it struggles to give a 3layer reading sometimes.

you only really need to read 2 layers-(the paint and clearcoat thickness), you can read the 3rd layer (Primer) but I dont really see the need-
as long as we know the thickness of the laquer/top coat , we know how far we can polish down safely to remove the imperfections.

The 200 basic model only gives one reading which istotal thickness of all the layers therefore you are unable to determine the actual clearcoat thickness

as for which reading is what : if reading in 2 or 3 layer mode it would show up as the following
1st - clearcoat
2nd- paint
3rd- primer/undercoat

 

Yes, my opinion would be that the PosiTector 200 Advanced is worth the price becuase it works and it delivers the results I was looking for.

As for the the clear coat goes on now, yes now you get the re-paint and clear coat applied but the difference is that the clear coat is applied after the paint has been left to cure and completely dry..well that's what a few body shops told me..don't quote me on that though as I've never seen clear coat being applyed and I'm only saying what I've been told :shrug: but the body shops I spoke to are reputable shops around town so I trust them.

As far as the 6000 vs the DFT, they are both great gauges...the reason I went with the 6000 is becuase I wanted to be able to print and load the paint gauge readings that I get on vehicles, I also ordered the PosiSoft which comes with the calbe and software to download the readings to a PC/laptop. You've seen the paint gauge readings that Divine Detail loads up well that's why I wanted it, it can store readings vs the DFT can not. It's meant to be used as a quick gauge and way you go as far as accuracy goes I beleave they are equal in accuracy.

 

:nod: Jayplay is correct with regards to the comparison with the Basic model and the Advanced model.

Thank you for sharing the way layers work Jayplay as I've been scratching my head about that for the past few days :thumb:

 

Thanks for the great info guys.

I was also wondering if the PS6000 Basic (1) model has a serial port? On the website, it seems to hint that only the Advanced (3) model as the serial port. Yet PosiSoft is optional for the Standard (2) model - What is the point of PosiSoft if you cannot transfer data from the gauge? So I am thinking that all of them have the serial port or other data transfer port but I am not sure.

 

dont know what site your looking at but see if this one helps
PosiTector

 

Jay,

Serial RS232 communication for downloading readings as they are taken to a PC or Data Collector (requires optional Serial Output Cable)

-​

-​

X​

PosiSoft downloading and charting software (includes USB cable)

-​

optional​

X​

Thats the area I'm cloudy about..If the middle one (2) does not have an option for the serial port, how can you chart the data using the optional software?

 

The gauge that I have is the option 2 and it does have a serial port...I'm not sure what the RS232 is though? Mine has the capability of connecting to a laptop I just had to purhcase the software and cable seperately.

 

i see what your saying... best bet would be to call manufacturer direct and ask..

 

Nica, Jay, thank you :thumb:

 

Hope I helped, I was just sharing what I knew from others telling me and from my own experiances. Good luck eace:

 

Can the 200 advance take readings from metal body cars or is it just fiberglass/composite?

I have a DFT right now.

TIA!

 

As far as I know...now I haven't tried it my self but the PosiTector 200 is designed for only fiberglass and composite.

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:That was very interesting to follow. Now I just need some cold hard cash to invest in tools.:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

Thanks Nica!

 

Happy to help, but I should give it a try on metal to see how accurate it is. I've read some UK members tried to use the PosiTector 200 on metal/aluminum and I thought I read they were successful at it...but I could be mistaken.

The PosiTector 200 is a completely different machine compared to the DFT or the PosiTector 6000, just different technology completely so that's why I can't see the PosiTector 200 working properly on Metal/Aluminum.

 

I'm coming in late on this discussion (sorry) but here are some answers...

There are 3 types of paint meters:
- Ferrous - least expensive, measures over steel panels
- Combo - most popular, measures over any metal, steel or aluminum
- Ultrasonic - most expensive, measures over plastic and fiberglass


QUOTE: [I found some of these <ultrasonic gauges> online and wanted to know what you guys think about them]

The PosiTector 200 measures COATING thickness. The ultrasonic gauges that ShinySideUp found measure WALL thickness. WALL thickness gauges measure the TOTAL thickness of a metal part and are lower in price. A detailer would have no use for a WALL thickness gauge.


QUOTE: [Can the 200 advance take readings from metal body cars or is it just fiberglass/composite? ]

The PosiTector 200 B/Adv was designed for NON-METALS like plastic/fiberglass/composite. On most METAL paint jobs it will measure the total paint system OK but has difficulty separating the clear-coat as an individual thickness. If you have one of these gauges, try it. It will likely work OK on the less-common thicker paint jobs over 200 microns (8 mils). But don't buy one thinking you will always be able to measure only the clear coat... it's hit and miss on metal.


QUOTE: [On another note, is the PT6000 more accurate than the PT DFT?]

Yes, the PosiTector 6000 is more accurate than the PosiTest DFT by a little. Here's an example. If both gauges give a measurement of 100 microns (4 mils) the TRUE thickness is between...
- 97 and 103 microns (3.9 and 4.1 mils) PosiTector 6000
- 95 and 105 microns (3.8 and 4.2 mils) PosiTest DFT
- 90 and 110 microns (3.5 and 4.5 mils) some cheaper Chinese gauges
Do the calculations yourself when considering a purchase. Don't forget to widen the spread if the resolution is poorer than the stated accuracy. Don't trust a gage that doesn't publish its accuracy and resolution. Bottom line, buy a gauge that helps you remove only a FEW MICRONS of clear coat when polishing.


QUOTE: [I was also wondering if the PS6000 Basic (1) model has a serial port?]
The BASIC (1) model has no memory for printing or downloading, so no serial port. The STANDARD (2) model has a USB port for printing or downloading 250 readings with OPTIONAL software and cable. The MEMORY (3) model has a USB port for printing or downloading 10,000 measurements in subgroups with the INCLUDED software and cable. Here's an updated link: PosiTector 6000 - Gage Selection


QUOTE: [with the 200 adv it can read 3 layers, I use it in 2 layer mode as I find it struggles to give a 3layer reading sometimes.]
There are 2 models. The standard PosiTector 200 B/Std measures the TOTAL thickness of all paint layers - just like a magnetic PTG does over steel. The advanced PosiTector 200 B/Adv can measure the top clear coat individually on plastic and other non-metals. This last model is more useful for detailers.

When measuring a vehicle for the first time with a PosiTector 200 B/Adv, set the number of layers to "1". The gauge will measure the total thickness of all layers of paint combined.

As you take more measurements, watch the graphical display. How many peaks consistently appear? If three peaks always appear, the gauge is telling you it can "see" three layers. Reset the number of layers to "3" to measure the individual thicknesses of three layers.

Most likely, two peaks will appear. Reset the number of layers to "2", then measure. The resulting layer1 value will be the clear coat thickness. The layer2 value will be the thickness of everything else below the clear coat (colour/base + primer + adhesion promoter).

For further info on the gauge see PosiTector 200 - Ultrasonic coating thickness gage measures coating over concrete, wood, composite and more. Conforms to ASTM D6132 and ISO 2808 and SSPC PA9

A short article on how it is used in detailing, Automotive Paint Detailing: Paint Thickness Meters, Gauges