Highline II meter ?

Would the HIghline II meter be accurate enough to keep an eye on how much clear was taken off from annual polishing performed by a detailer ? The detailer does not have a paint thickness meter.

Also, does anyone know what healthy readings are for the following cars ?

2001 BMW 540i
2003 BMW 325i
2006 Acura TL


Thanks in advance !

 

I have no experience with PTG's but I have seen the highline meters being used before. But I am interested in the question as well.

And someone can chime in and correct me if I am wrong, but the best place to get an initial reading is in the door jambs. I've read that this is the area that typically has the least amount of clear/paint so it tells you where your limit is.

Seth

 

+1 I want to know the answer to his question. I just got a Defelsko and have just been using it to find areas that have been repainted, by looking for really high numbers

 

I have had my Highline 2 for about a year and I haven't had any issues. I haven't been able to compare it to a defelsko, but it works fine and their customer service is pretty good. They are located in MI.

One thing I have noticed, which I believe is considered normal, is that it needs to be calibrated after a battery change. I don't detail every day, so I verify calibration every time I use it.

It's a great tool to have ... I offer pre-purchase inspections to co-workers/family members/friends and I've been able to detect a lot of repaired vehicles with clean carfax reports. I don't charge to help people out, but I was able to pay off the meter with the all the tips I have gotten.

 

The accuracy of that meter is + (3%+2 um) or + (3%+.1 mils). At 130 microns, that's an error range of nearly 6 um.

Published clear coat removal recommendations...
Chrysler- 0.5 Mil (12 um) Ford – 0.3 Mil (7.5 um) GM – 0.5 Mil (12 um)

 

Been using a Highline meter as well, for a few years.
Works great, but will eat the single AAA battery if left in all the time, so I take it out and leave it in the nice hardcase it comes with.
It is good to see the entire vehicle 's paint thickness condition before I start correction, and I know then where I may need to be careful the most.
I see a trend in BMW's since I do more of them than any other make, to use less and less paint as the years go by. I am sure that most everyone else will probably do the same sometime, in efforts to save $$$.
It also helps spot the previously Detailed-a-lot-vehicles easily, and most importantly, lets you know what you have to work with.
And as been said earlier, a meter helps spot previously painted panels, which will always have way more material on the area/s than surrounding panels..
Not many Clients ask if I measure paint, except for those that are more actively involved with the care and feeding of their baby..

One day I would like to be able to justify the Delfesko 200Advanced or something like that, but right now, the $2,700+ price is pretty tough..

Dan F

 

You'll be able to determine if how well your meter was calibrated at the factory. Mine unit tends to be a little bit optimistic, so I substract 10um from the actual reading just to be on the safe side.

 

My question with PTG's, is how do you find a good baseline for what the car should have left? Should you take a measurement in a door jam like someone said? Somewhere that probably hasn't seen much action?

 

I dont see a need to measure a door jamb, unless you are going to be correcting in there.
You want to measure all the panels you are going to use your machine on, and just either remember, or measure frequently, and go from there. I see no reason to measure painted edges, because its pretty darn hard to measure an edge, and since you are staying away from them, never holding your machine down hard on them and grinding on the paint, you will always be ok there. even more so if you are using a Random Orbital. I use only Rotary Power to correct everything and I have never burned an edge - you just go past the edge with less pressure and more arm speed and you are done there...

Also my Highline meter came with a couple of metal rounds, one coated and one uncoated, so you can see the difference when you measure them, and also a few different plastic shims of different thicknesses to use your meter on to determine if its accurate and instructions on how to change it if its off. Mine never seems to be off..

Dan F

 

My concern isn't really how much I'm taking off, but how much has been taken off over the car's life. Such as D&D said that Ford's recommended take off is 7.5um. How do I find what the car started with in order to know how much has been taken off by previous detailing, so as not to exceed that 7.5um. I don't want to dive into a 15yo car, that's reading 140um average all over (which would be normal for my car) then burn through the clear, because that car had already had quite a lot of clear removed in the past.

I think buying a PTG has just made me more nervous about detailing. I was happier in the dark :gasp:

 

But honestly. Of all the cars out there how many have had previous polishing done to them (besides body work- even still that generally indicates higher than average readings)?
Probably very, very few.

I was under the impression that polishing hardly removed any clear and that wet sanding, compounding, and leveling is what a PTG is really needed for.

 

Haha I know, I'm probably putting way too much thought into this. Its just a worry I've had. I'm extremely careful and don't do much that removes lots of clear coat, but I also don't carry any insurance, so burning paint would be on me.

 

Ok, I thought about this some more, understand now why someone said to measure the door jambs to get a baseline of how much paint is there because this would be the lowest amount, and then measure the rest of the car. Makes sense if the door jambs had the same amount of material that the outer surfaces have.

I just went out and measured the door and the door jambs of my black '09 grand cherokee, and the door was 157um (microns) and the door jamb was 76um.

Now, we have to remember that the Highline only measures the entire thickness of the painted panel, including primer,coatings on the metal under the primer = the number on the Highline.

Only the most expensive Delfesko 200A will break down the different readings of each substrate in that panel, so the Highline is only going to be so accurate then, right ?

What I do and probably many others who do this, is look at the total reading of the panel with my Highline and see if its all over 100um and if so, then I am way comfortable working with a Rotary using the least agressive product as needed, to correct to whatever level this Detail is being billed for.

I never take every last mark out (unless the Client of the Ferrari, etc. wants them all out), and tell my Clients that as long as this is a daily driver and is going to get whacked at the car wash, scratched by kids sliding their backpacks across the hood, trunk, sides, etc., I am going to remove all the top surface stuff for sure,, and soften and shrink down the deeper scratches, so that they are pretty much not noticeable except by someone who is a Detailer like myself. I also tell them that each time I see their vehicle, if its not been so long and its not very scratched,I am going to be able to use a more fine polish now (no compounds), and I will be taking less material off and refining the finish even more than the last time (when I did the iniitial correction).

So in effect, their vehicle keeps looking better and better each time, because I am now using polishes that are used right before jeweling or right at jeweling stages.

I will always look at my paint readings and determine if I have removed any or not, and I have to tell you, it takes a lot of effort to remove even 1 micron of material unless you are using a really heavy duty compound, wool pads and a Rotary at high speed.

If you are using a Random Orbital, the chances of burning through the clear are so much less,,because you are not rotating a pad at the speeds a rotary is capable of with the amount of pressure you can exert on a Rotary and still have it turn.

So, to recap, the Highline meter is only going to measure total material thickness on any given steel or aluminum panel. My Jeep measures out at 157um, I figure I have a lot of paint on there before I run into issues at my personally set baseline of 100um. I am never going to polish out 57um of material in my life on this Jeep. Again, you only remove just so little amounts, and the meter helps you determine how much you had and how much you have removed.

I have compounded vehicles that were less than 99um many times and panels that were in the 75-80um range and never had an issue either. You just have to be really careful, watch what you are doing, stop frequently and see if the defects are changed or gone, and go from there.

Dan F

 

Thanks for the info man.

 

Well said Dan!

 

I have the HL II. I have perfected calibrating that thing.

 

Could you PM me your procedure? I got the instructions, but I don't know if I'm messing it up. I think my tip is dirty.

G

 

Dan F,

So would 1 pass of M105 and 1 pass of M205 take off less than 1 micron on typical OEM paint ?

 

Xyz10 - It is not possible to give you an opinion on something like this without knowing a lot more, i.e.,

Experience level of Detailer
Machine being used (model number) and experience level of Detailer using that particular machine
Type of Pad/s being used, ( foam, wool, foam/wool, microfiber, brand and color of pad/s), experience level of Detailer using these pads
Compounds - Meguiars 105, Meguiars 205, experience level of Detailer using these products
Year, make, and model of vehicle (helps determine if the paint will probably be classified as hard paint, medium hardness paint, soft, and very soft paint.)
Color of paint - paintcode, or name of paint if possible i.e., BMW black paint = Jet Black, Black Sapphire Metallic, Cosmos Black, etc..
Thickness of paint or paint+ material using a Paint Thickness Gauge, etc..
Condition of paint - is it swirled, scratched, rids, holograms, not peeling, no bubbles, is it faded as in very old paint, etc..
Has this paintwork ever been corrected before? If so how many times, when was the last time,,

This is what goes through a professional Detailer's mind every time they look at a vehicle to give an estimate to the prospective Client.

If I was going to do what you have asked above, I can say that for me with my experience level, using a Rotary, no, I would not even come close to taking off even close to a um (micron) off an average, healthy, painted panel with 1 pass of Meguiars 105 and changing pads to a softer pad, and Meguiars 205.

Hope this helps.
Dan F

 

Thanks for the replies. Is the Highline 2 "better" than the original Highline ?

Looks like I will order one shortly.