Why Pro charge so much?!

Hi guys


Paint correction prices

I came across this thread in a GTR forum, and I found it to be disturbing. People don't seem to understand why pros charge so much, so maybe the Pro can explain it to the public (if you like).


Franki

 

Pretty simple... cost of products/tools + time spent.

Great details with correction aren't done in a 3 hour speed detailing shop.

 

People still think that you can rush perfection. Claying can take a good 1-3hrs with a dirty car. I would say most cars are at least a 10hr job

 

Detailing

Exterior (8 hours)
• Wash and dry exterior paint – 1.5
• Detailer’s clay – 1.0
• Tyres and Wheel surfaces – 0.5
• Clean exterior glass – 0.5
• Clean and lightly polish paint – 1.5
• Wax or seal paint -1.0
• Clean and protect rubber seals – 0.5
• Exhaust, tyres and trim etc 1.5 hours

Interior (4.5 hours)
• Brush and Vacuum carpets – 0.5
• Shampoo mats – 0.5
• Shampoo / extract carpet – 1.0
• Clean upholstery – 1.0
• Apply protection to vinyl and leather – 0.5
• Clean interior glass -0.5
• Deodorize interior - 10 min
• Protect carpet and upholstery – 0.5

This level of detail on an average sized and condition vehicle would take approx 13 hours, a larger vehicle will obviously take more time, most professional detailers will charge between $400 and $550 to do this level of work.

Depending on location / skill level / /reputation, to transform a vehicle back to ‘like-new condition; so expect to pay a fair price for the amount of work and materials involved.

Extract from "Becoming a Professional Detailer" - http://www.autopia.org/forum/detail...ng/136438-becoming-professional-detailer.html

 

Rent, utility, cost of products, insurance, miscellaneous expenses, wages, thoroughness of the detail. To be honest I don't see 1k as being too much for a 3step + interior + engine bay. I do think charging 3 to 5k is over the top though, unless customer requested to have the car wet sanded to get rid of orange peel.

 

1) Cost of Material - Detailing Supplies.
2) Cost of Labour - Man hour to get to job done.
3) Overheads - Rental, insurance, tools and machines depreciations etc..

End of the day, there has to be a profit...

 

Why do Doctors charge so much for what they do?
Lawyers? engineers? If it was SO easy then everyone would be doing it right?


Problem is with people who are so accustomed to discounts, big box stores and the corner $5.00 car wash with the $99.00 detail special, they think its a low skill job so when they see some guy trying to take it to the next level they do not understand it.

I am done trying to explain price, this is what I charge this is what I do, take it or leave it.

Funny thing is this, I tell someone I charge $25.00 -$35.00 an hour to do correction work they freak out, then I tell them I charge $125.00 hour to do a fire arms training class, and my classes take 3-4 hours and they don't even bat an eye, and honestly there is no physical or mental stress teaching, just more instruction etc, but the perception of labor between the two professions is not valued the same.


value is in the eye of the beholder.... if you do not value something nothing you can say or do will change their mind set generally.


If you read that thread, you see Mike is on there, and once pics of a proper correction are posted people change their perception, and that is really the only way to change mind set.

 

Well said guys. Educating your client is sometimes harder to do than the detail itself sometimes. Like any profession there will be hacks and lowballers. Stand to your prices,if your work shows through above the rest of the pack then you have nothing to worry about. Fair (Profit making) prices and quality work will always bring these people back to you.

 

I think my prices are fair. Some say I'm way expensive, and others say I'm too cheap. Again, I think my prices are fair.
And if I can get good correction % while finishing down reasonably well on someone's daily driver, then I will simply charge for a 1 step instead of pushing for a 2 step (or 3 steps)

 

Other problem is the industry is not standardized like Auto repair or Body, no Mitchell book time to base anything off of, so that is an issue.

so anything higher then normal people immediately are on the defensive.

 

There are a lot of things to consider when comparing pricing. Most pro's will charge $50 / hr with some as high as $75 / hr based on the local demographic. By pro, I don't mean someone who does this for a living, but rather someone who is capable of delivering great results time after time. There are a lot of guys that do this full time that should search out other career possibilities. The other thing to consider is overhead. I'll use my shop as an example. When all the overhead is added up, and this includes every expense that comes out of my business account every month including rent, heat, electric, bank fees, cc fees, fuel for the mobile service etc, my overhead is $17 / hr. Now, say I want to make a decent salary. Nothing crazy, but enough to pay my bills and feed my Starbucks habit. Lets say $25 / hr or $50k /year. Now we are sitting at $42 / hr and haven't factored in any profit for the shop which is normally 30% or so. That will be $14 / hr in my case. Add it up and you get $56 / hr. Figure a good detailer will spend 8 - 10 hours for an exterior wash, decontamination, single stage polish and coat of sealant and you are looking at $550 or so. Now, having said that, there are other things to consider. If you live in an area where weather is good most of the year and P-cars and Ferrari's are prevelant, the chances of getting over $50 / hr are better than someone living in the midwest detailing family vehicles all the time. There are detailers who can work out of their houses or do mobile work strictly to keep the overhead down, which means they can be way more profitable. The weather here coupled with the cost of building a suitable garage puts that scenario out of reach for me.

Secondly, we must consider the time it takes to do the job CORRECTLY, versus just doing it. To wash a car properly takes a minimum of 1.5 hours for a daily driver. If you do it faster, I guarantee you are missing stuff. Decontamination will take between 30 and 90 minutes depending on how bad the car is. A single stage polish with a light polish to brighten the paintwork and remove LIGHT swirls associated with poor wash and dry techniques will take between 4-6 hours. I am talking about using a polish like Power Finish and a green pad to perform some light correction versus using something like 106FA and a black pad to simply brighten the paintwork. Each additional polishing step could easily add an additional 6-8 hours depending on the condition of the paint. Did you want the interior detailed? A properly detailed interior will take 4-5 hours.

This is why it costs what it does to do it PROPERLY. There is a big difference between doing the job right and just doing it. As stated, people have no issue paying a dealership here upwards of $125 hr to service their car and destroy the paint with the courtesy wash, but when I charge them what I do, they have no problem pointing out a fingerprint or complaining that the gouge that goes down to the primer didn't come out. I for one will be raising my prices come Jan 1. If you don't want to pay it, watch the door doesn't hit you in the ass on your way out!

 

"There are a lot of guys that do this full time that should search out other career possibilities."


that is so TRUE!........ and could be said about many professions. People are SO wrapped up in price.

 

I charge 65 an hour at the shop, and 75-85 an hour on the road depending on how far I have to go. Again paint correction isn't for everyone and I pass out a lot of business to other local detailers I trust cause we only do paint correction. When I book my jobs as soon as I am with the customer I will explain thoroughly what exactly they are paying for and why it is priced where it is. That being said I average between 1,000 to 1,800 a correction very rarely do I get a car that's goes over 5k.

 

At your level it seems that is about average, who is charging over 5k?

 

I was reading the link that was originally posted and people were gawking at how someone would charge 5,000 it some cases it will cost 5k. I have a 2004 jet black Rolls Royce Phantom coming in for a 7500.00 full wet sand/correction but to be honest given how big the car is and how long it's going to take me I wouldn't have scheduled the job for anything less cause in the amount of time it's going to take me to do that rolls I would have made that off of 4-5 cars.

 

I don't do paint corrections because I rarely have people interested in my 2 step polish detail anyways. So my focus is on protection and 1 step enhancement details, because its what most people in my area wants. but if someone wants paint correction 90%+, I send them to Phil or Dave. because they have more experience than I do in Paint corrections. Im sure I can do it, but with my full time job, I will be exhausted afterwards.

 

Oh, if anyone read every single post in that thread, you'll notice the OP saying he paid $1700 for 10 hours worth of work.......
That works out to be... $170/hr, that's such a rip off..... Anyone here charging that kind of labor rate? (I charge 30/hr if anyone is wondering, lol)

 

I would argue, and some may think this is crazy, but professional paint correction should cost as much, if not more than a repaint. We are restoring the ORIGINAL finish to perfect, or near perfect condition. The only other option to achieve this is a repaint which WILL lower the value of the car. And we all know of the issues that come with repainting- sanding marks, runs, orange peel, fish eyes, etc., etc., etc.! We are INCREASING the value of the car while maintaining the original paint. Obviously a paint correction can't achieve what a repaint can in SOME cases, and a repaint can range from 5- 10k+ depending on the job. But I'm sure you get my point, if a customer is seeking perfection then they should be prepared to pay the price, and most importantly, understand what it will take to maintain it.

Until you have performed a true professional paint correction, or have seen it done, you have NO idea what it takes to achieve it.

 

I have no problem charging whatever it takes. A lot of people get really stuck in the idea because of alot of the stuff posted that its as easy as pie. Cut a slice, plate it, execute - done. The people who grind it out daily on a high level understand its not only about paying your own expenses, but its a skill trade as well.

Any schmoe can put a polisher to paint, its the overall difference and the discriminating eye that helps to set the professionals charging the higher rates that equates to furthering the trade. To me, its more than just covering your costs and profiting some..

 

full wet sand is definatley worth the money, far less expensive then a full respray..........


I do not do a lot of heavy corrections either, most of my work is cleaning and and removing hazing and swirl marks regardless people will still pay what i feel my time and overhead is worth....


"I would argue, and some may think this is crazy, but professional paint correction should cost as much, if not more than a repaint. We are restoring the ORIGINAL finish to perfect, or near perfect condition"

I agree 100% with that, and honestly some of the worst detail work I have seen comes from "body shops". With that said, I have sold cars knowing it may require half the car be resprayed, I cannot drive a car that does not have original paint unless it matches perfect. it bothers me lol