Im building a pole barn w/cement floors...

...and Ive been thinking abotu adding a drain in the floor when i build it. We are doing all the work ourselves, except for running the 220 line from the main to the garage so i would have complete control over how the floor is set up.

On one hand, i like the idea of being able to wash indoors when its -10 below F outside in January.

But on the other hand, if i have a drain in the floor i will have to have sloped floors (aiming towards the drain) witch will make using a slider/dolly hard to use as well as using floor jacks, jack stands, cherry pickers....

Anyone have some experience they can offer to help me decide?

 

When you have sloped floors for drains, the degree of the slope isn't huge. Even if you only have a few degrees, gravity will do the work for you. I'd say get the indoor drain, you'll regret it if you don't!

 

Thanks, i didn't know how much slope i was going to need. So very little huh?

My frost line is about 50" here, i was thinking of digging down 6 ft, then using a 50 gallon plastic drum (like you see at a car wash, the blue kind) filled with crushed concrete on the bottom of the hole and 6" pipe leading to it from the drain.

That should work right?

 

Are you getting permits to build this garage? I would guess you are, kind of hard to hide something at big. I would check your local codes, i know here in PA, its very hard to get a floor drain in a garage. The drain NEEDS to go to a oil/water seperator of some sort, before it is discharged into the ground or sewer system. Since its a garage use, it has the potential to have chemicals mixed in, and draining directly to the ground is a huge no no in the eyes of the EPA.

I would double check your local codes before planning on doing anything. But I do agree with the above statements. Most residental garages are sloped toward the overhead doors for draining, you can barely notice the slope with jacks or other tools. Depending on the size, you slope would be very minimal. You also dont need to slope the entire garage floor, just the area you'll be washing in, if its that big.

 

Thanks, and yes we only have one permit/inspection required here: Hole depth

Once the inspector comes out and says our holes are 50" thats the last we will see of him.

As far as chemicals, oil, etc going down the drain i wont be doing any of that type of work in the barn. I have an attached garage i can do that in

 

Your lucky, like i said here in PA, if there is a car in it, it means it can leak, which means must have a oil water seperator

 

You definitely want drains! I'm assuming you'll have heat and obviously water, don't skimp. You've got one best opportunity to build something the way you want it. You want hot & cold water as well as a basin or tub. Multiple hose bibs if possible so you have multiple options for attaching hoses.

When I built my shack I went with a 3 bay garage... one main double bay with a single large door (no center post!) and the 3rd auxiliary bay with a separate door.. I installed square box drains with flush grates with the outlet piping located near the top of the box so sediment and crud would sink to the bottom rather than be washed down and potentially plug up the works. I thought I wanted 3 drains, one centered in each bay. The builder talked me out of it because there would be excessive sloping. Ended up with one central drain in the two-car side and another in the center of the 3rd bay. It was a good move because after seeing everything installed it definitely would have been too much multi-directional sloping.

I generally use the 3rd bay for motorcycles, lawnmowers, snowblower and utility stuff. The 2-car side usually has a single vehicle in the center when I'm washing or detailing so the vehicle is over the drain. With 2 cars parked inside in the winter having the drain between them results in crud accumulating between the vehicles and somebody has to walk through it. Not much of a way around it for this application.

I've got no problem dragging floor jacks around, it probably would've been a PITA if I would've configured the 3 separate drains. As it is there's only a gentle sloping towards the center of the 2-car side and a bit more pronounced sloping in the 3rd bay.

Your other option is to place a full width drain at the door opening either inside or outside. I didn't consider that after seeing what I ended up with at another job site. Nice clean installation and although having a mini sludge pit to clean out a couple times a year is kind of a yucky job it beats dealing with clogs. In the winter I generally clean the grit and crud off the floor instead of just washing it down the drain for the same reason.

Can't comment on your leech barrel idea, mine goes to the road ditch along with drainage from downspouts. My only concern would be if you used a LOT of water whether you'd have sufficient absorption to prevent a backup. That was out of the question around here because the soil is all stout clay, it doesn't perk or absorb.

Not much in the way of regulation out here in the Amish country boonies. In many areas even the aerobic septic systems drain to the road ditches...chlorinators required on the discharge.

TL

 

It won't work long term and that pipe would be over sized leading to build up of muck since the pipe would be so large that nothing would really move through it, thicker solids that is. The idea behind pipe sizing is that it's sized according to fixture units, in other words, the pipe would be self scouring. If pulling a permit you'd more than likely need a sand oil separator even if you don't plan on doing any major repairs, etc and it would have to discharge to storm water or sewer depending on the rules of the authority having jurisdiction in your area.

Running a trench drain or two would be ideal. The slope of the floor depends on how much area you are trying to drain. Have you considered radiant floor heat?

 

I don't think you want to just go straight down with your floor drain. You'd be better off running a 4" sloped pipe to a point outside the perimeter of your foundation. That way you can access any settling basin or French drain should they plug up without tearing up your floor. Ideally you want to have some idea of how well your soil drains when designing the system. Google French drain, greywater system, blackwater system, percolation test, etc. and you'll get a ballpark idea of how to do this. The standard slope for the pipe to the settling tank is somewhere in vicinity of 1/4" per foot. I wouldn't go less than that but too much slope is almost as bad as too little.
Doing this right is way outside the scope of this forum but if you do some research and don't just leap into this you should be okay. It isn't particle physics.

 

Excellent stuff guys, i appreciate the time you put into replying. Ive got some reading to do.....

 

With a trench drain running across the floor he could simply lift the covers off and clean it out. If installed correctly with clean outs and such nothing should ever need to be torn up.

A French drain isn't a pipe or a drain field, it's a system designed to keep ground water from entering a building through the foundation. You must be referring to perforated pipe that used to be used for each drain field leg. French drain is a slang name and this isn't grey water. We don't know where he will end up draining to at this point. "If" he pulls a permit they will tell him where it has to go.

I wouldn't run a pipe into the ground and call it good, you might end up drinking wheel brightener one day :yikes:

Good luck with your project! If you end up pulling a permit and do the work yourself I would be glad to offer some pointers. I'm a licensed plumber and have installed many of these systems including radiant floor heat and snow and ice melt systems with heated traffic rated trench drains at grade. Sounds like you're in a cold climate like me. If you end up running a pipe into the ground I don't want to know about it lol.