Please read my take on Sonax products from Autogee

Not going to say Phil did not have a hand but I think it was Emily and his obsession (no offence) for wheel cleaners and Reflects (I think) able to talk to the distrub. to get a case of the cleaner to try after Corn was saying how pimp it was as he gets it OTC. They put it on the map, Phil just distributed it...not saying he didnt have a hand but those where the ones that really got it out there and going.

Bottom line is AG is the Wal-mart of the detailing world and they bring detailing to the average joe via the aggressive advertising and advertising to the public they do now.

Oh well, I spread the job and buy from everyone..heck Phils MF sale was too good to pass up.

 

Your eyes are corrupt. AG started carrying it because customers specifically asked them to carry the Dodo line. Autogeek is awesome, as is Detailers Domain.

Ankeet, I don't know if Reflect and I actually deserve the credit for the 5L Sonax containers but if you're going to give it to us, I'll take it!

 

AG is second to the party once more, Phil creates the buzz and brand recognition and they come in with intro discounts on all the products weeks later...

= FAIL

 

You're right, my eyes are corrupt.

Let me liken the situation to this scenario: I used to listen to this band and they were really good. They got signed to a record label, and all of a sudden their music is less awesome because they want to appeal to everyone- they sacrifice quality to appeal to more people to make money like their managers want. Sometimes making tons of money makes people lose sight of quality.

Brands I like, I want to get the same quality or better every time I purchase from them. I'm very skeptical of big companies carrying quality product from the little guys because their main motivation is buying more and pushing the price down. Their demands can make the manufacturers use a lesser quality product to meet those demands.

While my eyes may be corrupt, is it me that bastardizes products and undercuts to make money? The saying in so many industries goes like this: keep it small, keep it all.

Maybe I'm right, or maybe I'm just being an idiot on the internet for everyone to see. No matter who really gets the credit for bringing specific brands here to be sold to us enthusiasts, I'm just saying that it seems to me like Phil stumbled upon this brand somehow, had some faith in the product and this community, and decided to put out a lot of his own money to get it into our hands. Now that it's proven to be a viable product line, the big store doesn't have to sweat the gamble... the work is done, take it and profit.

I don't want to get into a tizzy about this and stir people up. I just hope people can see where I'm coming from.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking when I received the e-mail as well. Phil brought the sonax wheel cleaner to the market, worked hard on marketing the product and now people want this wheel cleaner like crazy. If it wasn't for Phil, I don't think this product would have made it in the garages of most detailers. If I decided to try it, Phil will get my business.

 

Hostage you are definitely just being an idiot.

 

After doing some reading, it seems that YOU older members are the ones to thank for getting detailerdomain another product. according to this thread http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum...es/16444-ph-neutral-all-wheel-safe-wheel.html

it seems it was detailerdomain who capitalized on the interest of you guys, not like detailerdomain(who is phil) went out on a limb and took a risk. It is a good product, just like the others I read about but really after reading detailerdomain posts, its clear this guy is a salesman. His post's typically are short and have something like a "its great" " order this" "i used it and its awesome" type of tone, so it seems that while detailerdomain may have started selling it, its irrelevant simply because the product works.

It seems, as far as selling products, detailerdomain, regardless of the type of product is just a damn good salesman. He says "here this is good, buy it

and it just happens to sell. I understand loyalty but it really only takes a mildly discriminating eye to see he is really trying to sell to you guys. I purchased some Sonax, some p21s(the S100) and did a little test, and really was the same result on the same front wheels. In fact it was smarter for me to buy some Opti Powerclean cleaner and dilute that and have the same effects. Who gives a rip if it turns color, and wheel cleaner can be rinsed cleanly (taking the break dust off) once you brush it. Its just detailerdomains "pitch" of the color change and the very light brake dust being pressure washed off was a ploy. The truth is, S^&%y , really baked wheels will "lol" at Sonax, its a maintenance cleaner with a super high price that does a maintenance job. I am sticking with something else, only because I do my own research and allow my results to dictate what I buy, not a vendor who is clearly(by the majority of the posts), selling.

 

I see where you are coming from in regards to the business tactics of AG, however this is a capitalist society and that means seizing opportunities which will be able to either bring you to the forefront of a specific industry or stay ahead of your competitors. I have nothing against the model of AG but I think there are many (including myself) that believe some of their forum tactics are completely wrong such as silently deleting any comments that demote or take away from the products they stock and sell.

They would also never take on a product as polarized and specialized as Aquartz in my opinion. Since I joined the AG forums and have been ordering from them for a few years, it seems like they have shifted their product focus from more experienced enthusiasts to targeting beginners and novices which is where the largest detailing market lies and therefore most of the money is.

 

There is no reason for a post like this. Lets try and be civil with each other, shall we.

 

I have only been on the AG forums since 07 ,which isnt very long, but a lot has changed over there. I too have noticed they no longer target the true experienced enthusiasts but more of the beginners such as Adams does. I have no hard feelings towards AG as they have never done me wrong but their tactics and the way they monopolize on the industry are shady. Only those who have been on there long enough would know.

 

It would seem to me that the most ethical business model (can you put those two words in one sentence) would be to sell quality products that you believe in, for the best price you can, a product you have found ‘“Does exactly what it says on the box” as well as providing quality customer service.

Phil actually uses what he sells and complies with all of the above; I can only name maybe two or three others who do this.

The WalMart business model makes profits and there is nothing wrong with that except commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is solely motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than an unbiased opinion

 

I don't get it..... I would like to see what some of you that are griping would do if you were running a business.....

I am not trying to ruffle feathers here but all this ruckus about a wheel cleaner is rather comical!

 

No !!!!!!!! It's too late, I'm already ANGRY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And to think after all of the commotion, I still haven't ordered a bottle!

 

:lol:



I picked up a 5L because I liked it so much. I see it more of an alternative to P21s but cheaper with Phils pre-sale. If you dont have P21s in your arsenal then chances are you probably dont really need the Sonax. Its good stuff but I use it more for delicate aftermarket wheels or for higher end cars. For your regular everyday cars with factory wheels there is still nothing better(to me) than Megs WB 10:1 or 4:1.

 

What I find so strange is that people think PBMA (owns AG) follows a Walmart model. The walmart model is all about price, price, and price. They want to be the cheapest. They will have manufacturers (like electronics like TV's) strip function to get the cost down to have that low price entry point. I will state that Walmart has made many companies more efficient than they would otherwise and more likely to be successful. If you can sell to Walmart and make a decent profit, you are an efficient company.

AG is about product selection (one stop shop) and customer service (sales and benefits like Mike Phillips).

Phil is great but it does not take away from many other sellers providing great customer service.

We do not want to be socialists do we (not directed at you Jon)?

 

I think its funny and ridiculous how so many people on here are haters. who cares who sold the product first or who introduced it. people are in business to make money. dont hate on others success. if you dont like a site then dont go on there, or if you dont like a store dont shop there. when people badmouth something it just makes them lood like a hater. everyone should look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are so easily influenced by one or two peolple saying a product is so great that they have to go run out and buy it. first its menzera, then meguiars , p21 then sonax, this wax that wax. I doubt any can look at a car and tell what wax or sealant is on it, but if someone says this wax is great than everyone goes out and buys it. the problem is the consumer not the business. who cares if ag has a monopoly, thats just being a good businessman. everyweek there is a product that is the next best thing, but in reality its not different than what is currently out there. Its the skill of the detailer not the product thats used

 

agreed. To a certain extent, anyways.


However, one may not be able to discern WHICH particular wax is on the car, but there are differences between waxes, especially on uncorrected paints. On a perfectly polished/ jeweled surface, the difference is negligible, but the low number of vehicles taken to, and kept at, that condition makes it irrelevant in an argument.

p.s. I see this is your first post. If you want to come here and bash db and it's members, at least spell properly. I do see the sheep at any forum who worship the forum owner (yes, detailing bliss has these sheep too). My guess is you are a member of AGO, and felt the need to defend your beloved autogeek forum/brethren.

I come here more for insight on technique, as I'm past the acquisition stage of the detailing obsession. However, one should always be on the lookout for new products that make it to market. IF there is a better product out there, I damn sure want to know about it.

 

my post was not a bash of db nor was it trying to defend ag, i was making a point that who cares who sells what product or who did what first, this is my favorite site, my point is who cares, when someone owns a business they can run it however they want. most consumers only care about who can get them the product at the cheapest price, same as business owners, when people talk about loyalty its such nonsense. a business owners is going to purchase a product from whoever gives them the best deal, there is no loyalty, its about money. I was fortunate to learn in the early stages that no product is going to improve my skill level, but my skill level will improve the result i get from a product. i just find it amazing how people are so easily influenced and so eager to be apart of a bandwagon.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I do understand that competition in the market is a good thing. Keeps prices down for us consumers.

Although not all businesses buy from the sole standpoint of cheapest.

My "day job" is retail sales of cabinetry/countertops/windows/flooring/etc. WE are a small, family-owned business. Our focus is the best service. Which means that we need to make sure our vendors can meet our specific needs (keeping timelines, product choices/options, etc.). Just saying that it's not about the bottom dollar in all instances.