Wheel Brightner Q's

I was interested in trying out wheel brightner, but I'm a little hesatant because the majority of the wheels I'm working on always seem to have have some curb rash on them, I read on some thread that even after rinsing the WB acid still remains and has to be neutralized, and can even compromise the wheel structure. whats your experiences and or process with WB. I am not wanting to use it for every wash, but wanted to save some time on the really bad ones, as I have seen a lot of you guys achieve great results with it. Any thoughts appreciated. Right now I use the megs hot rims cleaners (chrome & All wheel) also eagle one AtoZ and like them but was intriged in trying WB, not to mention one bottle would last a long time, very affordable. Was looking into Brown Royal too with all the new threads on it. Thanks.

 

I use WB. after you spray and scrub the wheel, just make sure you rinse it off real well. I have never had a problem with it.

 

I rinse very well and sometimes will spray some APC on and then rinse that off to neutralize the acid. I have heard both sides that say it is or is not necessary. It's a cheap precaution in my opinion. It's an awesome product. Use some APC once you've got them cleaned and sealed.

 

i have never had any issues with it either . . . . . . . use it with caution pretty much how you would use most any wheel cleaner with the exception of certain types of rims . . . . .

rinse thoroughly and when i foam the car i usually foam the rims as well to allow the soap just to help neutralize things a bit.

Works fine.

 

I love Megs WB. With that being said, I am cautious as to what type of wheel i am dealing with. But most of the time you'll be dealing with protected rims. I do however rinse with some light APC mix after WB, just to make sure its all off; wouldnt want that stuff sitting on rims for a very long time.

As far as worrying about rim rash, I've used WB on my audi rims that have plenty of rim rash and haven't noticed any negative effects. I think you'll be fine as far as that is concerned.

 

thanks for all the response, as far as hitting the wheel with some apc later, shoul dit be a strong dilution or a weaker 10:1 ratio or something like that.

 

man you can just hit it with soap and water, or like when i'm done washing and after drying the car, I spritz the wheels with QD and do a final wipe down, it's also good at flushing water out of the barrels

 

IMO its better to use a safe wheel cleaner than risk using Megs WB

"Non, je ne regrette rien"

Sonax Wheel Cleaner full effect

The best of both worlds; the cleaning power of an acid wheel cleaner with a (safe) pH of 7.5 by using a neutralised acid salt; neutralization is the reaction between an acid and a base (alkaline) producing a salt and neutralized base; common examples include acetic acid and sulphuric acid (hence the red colour, which is a chemical reaction (oxidisation) with the metal particles) forming a miscible emulsion that can be rinsed away and the smell (sulphur) It starts off green, then red and then to blood red, leave it on for a minute, agitate and rinse.

 

Sonax is great for the hobbyist and high end detailers but i can't imagine this stuff is cost effective (compared to megs wheel brightener) for high volume detailers

btw on my rims i just give it a quick blast of apc 10:1 no issues yet

 

stupid question...but can you guys tell me where you order your WB? i'm at a loss locally.

 

8.50 for 32oz should be enough to last the average enthusiast/part time detailer a good long while. That 32oz can be turned into a gallon of some extremely potent stuff.

Unless youre dealing with raw aluminum or some other high end materials I wouldnt worry about the WB as long as you rinse it good. 90% of the rims out there are coated so it shouldnt be a problem. Just know what your working with before hand.

The sonax is nice and all but $20 for 16oz of WHEEL CLEANER is just a little much in my opinion. I can go through a 16oz bottle of wheel cleaner quite quick. It would be nice to have a bottle of that stuff around for the most delicate of wheels but thats just too much for my wallet to be using on a constant basis.

Make sure you hose down the wheel good and if youre really worried about it, do as others have said and spray some APC on it. I usually just go over the wheels with my wash solution anyways in case I missed anything.

If you really want to be cautious I would advise you wear some gloves and maybe a cheap disposable respirator. There are health risks involved but I wouldnt worry too much about it if you have some common sense.

 

I order WB from ADS. I keep all my brushes for wheels/tires/wells, in a bucket of sopay water, so that my brushes dont get stained and add some light cleaning on top of the WB.

hope this helps.

Meguiar's D140 Wheel Brightener 32 oz.

Meguiar's Wheel Brightener D140 - 128 oz | Detailed Image

 

Ammonium Hydrogen Fluoride

Other names: Ammonium bifluoride - NH4HF2 (ABF) Ammonium hydro fluoride, Ammonium acid fluoride

[: Ammonium hydrogen fluoride is the inorganic compound with the formula NH4HF2. It is produced from ammonia and hydrogen fluoride]

One of the most common, and potentially dangerous, wheel cleaners; its effectiveness removing brake dust and difficult contaminants from chrome wheels is undisputed, but some chemists say ABF presents an unjustifiable and potentially lethal risk to carwash operators and their employees.

Industry experts say that the dangers of ABF are clearly outlined on the chemical's Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), and many consciously ignore the obvious risks because ABF is cost effective and reliable. However, some manufacturers and operators worry that Ammonium bifluoride (ABF) is being marketed as a safe alternative to highly-corrosive Hydrofluoric acid (HF), even though the two chemicals pose nearly identical health risks.

Experts say that some operators have been lead to believe that ABF is up to 20 times safer than HF and that this misinformation may be causing a time bomb at hundreds of carwashes
Hydrofluoric acid; that is a solution of hydrogen fluoride in water, it is corrosive, meaning it will have a detrimental (and sometimes unrecoverable effect on surfaces it’s applied too) and it is also highly poisonous. The application instructions usually state- ‘apply, but do not allow product to remain on the surface for more than 30 seconds before removal with a strong stream of water’.

Skin contact with concentrated hydrofluoric acid or inhalation of its vapour has caused many serious injuries, even death. Concentrated solutions of hydrofluoric acid pass quickly through the skin and cause deep, painful burns. Dilute solutions also penetrate the skin, but it does not give the immediate burning sensation caused by the concentrated form of the acid, a user may tend to be less aware of the contact with the acid.

There are specific ordinance to enforce Hydrofluoric acid hazard spill control / exposure and treatment methods and specific materials, most of which are just not going to be in the enthusiast or even mobile detailer's toolkit, non-compliance can result in heavy penalties.
It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys - Hydrofluoric acid - Hydrofluoric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chemists say it's the Fluoride ions in HF and ABF (NH (4) F) that make many wheel cleaners and pre-soaks so potentially dangerous. Whether fluoride ions enter body tissues as the result of inhalation or skin contact, they cause deep, progressive burning that may quickly lead to multi-organ failure and death. Long-term exposure to even minimal amounts of ABF can lead to brittle bones, weight loss, anaemia, and calcified ligaments

Meguiar's D140 Wheel Brightener is a strong acid, formulated with Ammonium bifluoride- SiO2 (ABF) and Quaternary ammonium salts are used as phase transfer catalysts for reactions involving immiscible solvent systems, such as the synthesis of dichlorocarbene with chloroform and sodium hydroxide. The addition of a molecule of water to a chemical compound, without forming any other products is known as hydration (i.e. dilution causes the pH to decrease)

But since pH is not a very good indicator of the strength of the acid in every system, this approach won't always produce the desired results. Original pH of Meguiar's Wheel Brightener = 5.06

Dilution Resultant (increase the acidity)
Ratio pH

(1:2) 4.72
(1:4) 4.50 (as recommended by Meguiar's)
(1:10) 4.23
(1:15) 4.11

This product requires certain safety measures be taken; eye protection, respirator and gloves. You should only apply to cool wheels (or it will become a strong vapour, you’ll also need to wet down cement as it can stain it. Do not use this product if the clear coat on your wheel has been compromised by rock chips, hitting a curb etc as it could permeate the clear coat (or polished wheel surface) fogging or permanently staining the surface. For these reasons Meguiar's markets this product to professionals (The statement made by Megs is that it’s a ‘Professional Product’ whatever that means, as it can be purchased by anyone)

After reading this information, you may want to run the other way from products such as these. Wheel acids can still be used safely if certain precautions are taken. The first thing I look for is a product that does not have a large concentration level of any kind of acid. If the concentration level of HF even approaches 10%, I look for something else where the level is more in the 5% or less range. Sulphuric acids should be in the 10% or less range.



An extract from “Using Acids for Cleaning ” one of a series of 118 unbiased “The Science of Detailing” technical papers, a library of educational materials that has become the #1 reference for car care on the Internet

Chances are you'll learn something about detailing if you read any of these; although these articles will not improve your detailing skills, lead to a successful business or change your life. Applying what you learn from it, however, will. That's where your commitment comes in - you need to make a commitment to yourself right now that you will take action on what you learn.

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^ Never knew this about WB. Very interesting. I still love it though!

 

Its 'to die for'

 

So adding water DOES make it more acidic. I knew it.

 

Its really strange but, yeah! Holy! I was thinking about getting this stuff too...

So Togwt can you tell me if Brown Royal is dangerous too. Thats my second choice.

 

Can you cut this with something besides water to make it less acidic? Or could I use something like Ph+- to level out the acid levels.