I just want to put another thumbs up on m105-m205. This stuff is amazing. It cuts super fast, and leaves the paint verryyyy slick, and it leaves an awesome shine. If you havnt tried it yet... GET IT!!!!!!!!!!
I just purchased that combo and can't wait to use it :applause2: I have only heard nothing but good things about it! LuDawg
has M105 changed at all product wise? I have had a bottle for a while and was wondering if it is the same exact formulation as the ones they are making now.
How much product do you reapply back onto the pad after each panel? I notice you are suppose to use a lot to prime the pad but what happens after that?
i did a black 09 civic si, a yellow z06 vette and a black z06 vette this week, all with 105 and a 7424 yellow and orange dd pads. i learned a few lessons i will share for comments and critiques. 1. m105 does its job very fast 90% of what it can remove will be removed in the first or second pass over the area, if it does not after first or second medium pass then add a few more drops and make another pass or two with same pressure, then lighten up and finish. 2. if your working it more then 30-45 seconds in a given area you either used too much product or are working it too long. small area very little product and slow passes. 3. use one of those pad brushes that phill sells, i was using what seemed like 5-6 pads on a regular size car, using the conditioning brush i used about half. im no expert and these have been my findings just wanted to see what others say
i have tried the 105 for the first time the other day with my rotary. i was surprised how fast it cut in one pass. it did dry very fast and what stuck on the paint was a pain to get off. is it ok to use the new stuff with a rotary? or strictly for da?
after the pad is primed i have been using 2 tiny drops like rain drop size..... a q tip end is about the best reference i can give
It is not a diminishing polish. I usually worked it for 4 to 6 passes and then stopped to check the work.
The new formulation of M105 is compatible with both rotary and DA. If it caked you either worked it too long, or at high revs, or the weather ain't agreeing with it. Either way, a mist of any good qd should get it off.
Anyone got any advice on using M205 with a rotary? What pads and how long to work it for swirl removal?
Try it with a primed (this is very imortant) LC Orange foam pad. Working time; using non-diminishing abrasives and wet-sanding are both linear abrasive processes, as you have a constant and consistent abrasive medium, the longer you work the polish / compound the more surface defects / clear coat is removed
Meguiar’s® M105 Ultra Cut Compound is a very aggressive non-diminishing abrasive (12 on a scale of 10) it is used as part of a somewhat unique polishing system, used by professional paint renovation experts, and is definitely not suitable for neophyte or inexperienced detailer’s. It should not be considered as a panacea to eradicate all types of paint surface scratches (always use the least abrasive product first before moving up the abrasive scale) As a polishing system, utilizing a rotary polisher it shows great promise, being used so successfully by some paint renovation experts its replacing the rotary polisher as their most used ‘go to’ method Meguiar’s® Super Micro Abrasive Technology (SMAT) - that is used in these polishes (M105 Ultra Cut Compound 1200< grit CAS 10/10 and M205 Ultra Finishing Polish CAS4/10) utilizes non-diminishing abrasives, their cutting ability comes from the hardness and shape of the abrasive particles. Using these compounds with a random orbital polisher requires a very different technique, pressure, pad size and selection, pad priming (with the compound) etc. Unlike traditional polishes that require a long working time to break down the abrasive particles, the SMAT abrasives in M105 utilizes ultra-hard non-diminishing abrasives that retain their size and shape throughout the polishing cycle. These abrasives are designed to cut hard and fast, and the fact that they maintain a consistent cut from start to finish means that the process goes much more quickly than traditional polishes or compounds. The end result is a heavier cut, with less working time. The important points • Proper priming of the pad (with the product being used) • Consistent pressure • Clean or change pads often [A word of caution - on fresh paint (or paint containing flex agent), there is enough applied force with this method that the paint could 'twist’. Paint twisting occurs when the heat and friction created by the machine, pad, buffing liquid, and applied pressure combine to alter the bond between the paint, primer, or substrate it is attached to] - Kevin Brown 1. The product used is a non-diminishing, heavy cut compound, applied with a 6 – inch LC CCS Orange Light Cutting or Yellow Cutting flat foam pads with a semi-rigid Velcro® backing plate (to ensure maximum abrasive used over minimum area) and ensure that pad is clean by removing oxidised paint and / or polish debris regularly or replace pad with a fresh one 2. M105 has a very fast working time (10-15 seconds) 3. Like all linear abrasive compounds or polishes, they require a correctly primed pad, to ensure sufficient product, the use of consistently applied pressure to ensure abrasive contact with the paint surface, this ensures consistent surface contact. Linear abrasives require that you work the product until you achieve the desired finish (taking care not to allow the oils / lubricant to dry out). 4. Prime the pad by semi-saturating (80%) the foam and then allow the liquid time to permeate the pore structure of the foam, and then ensure to spread the liquid abrasive uniformly. Keeping the pad flat while applying a constant / consistent pressure; thus ensuring constant paint / polish contact, when the initial polish has been expended replace with 4-5 small pea sized dots. Keep the pad flat (like you would with a sanding block) while applying constant pressure, the oils in the polish provide the lubrication (like the water does in wet-sanding).Do not allow the pad to “load-up” 5. Re-wetting (Meguiar’s® Last Touch Spray Detailer, diluted 1:1 distilled water) the abrasive residue will re-activate the product and provide extended work time. Do not use too much as it will cause the pad / polish to aquaplane; negating the abrasives ability 6. Pad grit number, amount of pressure applied and time will all affect the amount of abrasion achieved. If the initial process doesn’t provide the desired finish, increase the aggressiveness of the process; i.e. use a longer working time, increased pressure, increases the cut of the polishing pad;. harder clear coats require heavy pressure and slower passes 7. A normal polishing process will remove approximately 0. 1 Mil (3µ (Microns)) A properly primed cutting pad will eliminate most surface scratches and M205 will polish (burnish) the finish 8. Alternative method – My preference for removing sanding marks or serious paint defects with M105 is in combination with a rotary buffer and a LC Purple foam / wool cutting pad 9. Alternative polish - 3M Perfect-It™ Rubbing Compound (6085) 10. M105 tends to leave scratches that are similar to scratches from finishing paper, i.e. uniform size and depth. Use Meguiar’s® M205 Ultra Finishing Polish to remove them; prime the finishing pad as previously discussed, then using a non-abrasive, soft foam (100 PPI) pad at 900-1000RPM and then increase to 1200-1500RPM and then with a minimum of pressure make few passes at 1000 / 900RPM. 11. [When I finish with M205 I usually use a 15-20 second pass, that's it. You cannot refine the finish by working the product longer as you can with a diminishing abrasive. In fact over- working the polish will start to erode the quality of the finish that you are leaving, instead of enhancing it.] Todd Helme TH0001 Notes 1. Proper priming of the foam pad is of paramount importance 2. Clean and / or replace pads as often as is necessary; a clean seasoned pad will enhance the abrasive abilities of the compound / polish and make the process not only more efficient but less time consuming. 3. Use a brush to clean the pad after each time you polish a section, as it keeps the pad from accumulating too much polish on the paint surface but the pad remains saturated, avoiding the necessity of adding as much polish as the first panel or two. 4. Methodical cleaning of the pad and paint surface prior to the re-application of buffing liquid should virtually eliminate dusting 5. Application of a consistent pressure across the face of the foam pad is very important 6. To achieve a swirl free finish, apply moderate pressure on initial passes, reducing pressure gradually with very light pressure on final passes. 7. During the polishing process, trace amounts of paint and / or oxidation is removed; this can cause the debris and the polish to “clump” together. This can cause a haze to the paint surface, a wipe-down or a paint cleaning product will eliminate this. 8. Using non-diminishing abrasives and wet-sanding are both linear abrasive processes, as you have a constant and consistent abrasive medium, the longer you work the polish / compound the more surface defects / clear coat is removed 9. Speeds used - M105 / Rotary Polisher / Wool Pad at 1200-1500 RPM, speed 5 on the PC 7424 and a speed of 5.0 on the Flex XC3401VRG Dual-Action Polisher Priming / Seasoning Pads If the pad is not kept clean (especially when using a water spritz), the abrasives and paint residue tend to pack (clumping) onto the surface of the pad or into the membrane structure, and stay there. The main reason for this is typically, a lack of centrifugal motion, because there is less high speed rotation of the pad, so the residues tend to stay where they are compared to using the same setup with a rotary. Using distilled water or 1:1 distilled water / Meguiar’s® ® Last Touch Detail Spray keep the working surface area wet by misting the surface. This small amount of added moisture will wet the wool pad and help by loosening a majority of the abrasive from the fibres. The centrifugal inertia created by the machine would help to return the abrasive to the paint surface. Use a spritz of water to increase the abrasive ability of a pad / polish combination with the rotary, it’s not generally recommend implementing it with the random orbital. Most quick detailer or a pad conditioner are usually formulated with silicones, oils, waxes, polymers, gloss enhancers, which will negatively affect the polish lubrication (an exception is Meguiar’s® ® Last Touch Detail Spray diluted 1:1 distilled water) Be cautious as spraying excess water can cause the foam pads to aquaplane. As water (or a water - oil emulsion) for all intents and purposes is incompressible, so that the pad and the abrasive don’t have actual surface contact, thereby negatively impacting the abrasive abilities of the polishing process, unless this water is displaced from the surface and the pad via centrifugal force. Adding water reduces lubrication by displacing some of the lubricating oils. Very similar result are obtained when your wet-sanding; the more surface water the less the abrasive the finishing paper becomes Spread the polish / compound over the pad evenly and ensure it is absorbed into the foam, then spread that polish onto the pad by hand until it becomes 80% saturated. To apply to the paint surface; lightly raise the back of the machine so you are working with the top 1/3 of the pad. After polishing for a minute or two the pad will become more evenly saturated spraying water onto the surface to induce capillary action to draw more abrasives to the surface of the pad for more cut Once the pad has been seasoned (pad is saturated with product) you can reduce the amount of polish / compound applied to the pad for subsequent passes; dependent upon what you're trying to accomplish. If you use too much polish or compound the oils will cause the surface to become over lubricated, which will negatively impact the abrasive abilities. A good rule of thumb; you should always be able to see the individual cells on the pad. To apply to the paint surface; lightly raise the back of the machine so you are working with the top 1/3 of the pad. After polishing for a minute or two the pad will become more evenly saturated with product and actually become softer from friction induced heat build-up (seasoned). At this point, you can safely transition from a tilted up to a flat polishing position. Every time you put a fresh pad on your machine (and this should be done often) you should prime and then season it for a minute or two before "flat" polishing. Some advantages to pad priming: • Increased cutting ability • Better surface finish • Eliminates carrier system (solvent) flashing problems • Surface is more evenly polished and polisher is easier to control When you prime entire pad, by spreading the abrasives uniformly and by keeping the pad flat thus ensuring constant paint / polish contact it becomes similar to a piece of wet-sanding finishing paper, the oils in the polish provide the lubrication (like the water does in wet-sanding) Polish Lubrication Gloss It EVP Pad Prime is high-grade lubricating oil that greatly extends machine polishing times and enables polishes to break down properly, even on the softest of paints. It helps to extend pad life and reduce the amount of polish used, and therefore pays for itself in the long run. Works exceptionally well in hot and humid conditions, where it prevents polishes from flashing off too quickly, and is also useful in cold and damp conditions, where it prevents temperature-sensitive polishes like Menzerna RD3.02 from clumping up and becoming unusable. Designed to be used sparingly; only a single drop is required per panel to be polished; for best results, add the drop to the centre of the pad and then place the pad on to the panel to be polished and run your machine for a few seconds at low speed to spread the oil evenly over the face of the pad. See also - KBM - Kevin Brown Method - Detailing World KBM via Surbuf pad – Surbuf Pad paired with M105 and PC is a defect killer! - Page 5 - Autopia.org
