ive been told been by 2 separte people that layering your lsp is useless. they say that wax will remove wax and paint sealant will remove paint sealant.is this true? because i see alot of people adding at least 2 coats of the lsp to the vehicles. arnt the products suppose to bond to the paint so woulnt the next layer just bond on top of that? p.s. i was told that you can put wax on top of a sealant though?
No, it's not useless. It's recommended to ensure full coverage of the vehicle. But some waxes and sealants do have some cleaning abilities, in which case yes, it wouldn't make much sense to layer it past 2 layers, again to ensure full coverage. Which LSPs are you planning on using? You can put wax over a sealant, but not a sealant over a wax. Chemistry my boy, chemistry. However, there are certain waxes which contain high % of solvents and it is not recommended to use them over sealants, rather use them as a stand-alone LSP. PS, love the Tony Montana avatar. Ju wanna go to war, okay! We go to war!
http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum/f8/wax-film-thickness-measured-10924.html That is a good read over at DW, link is in my first post and some comments after. Second link talks about sealants. Wax, a pure wax with no cleaning ability, will not remove fully cured sealant, apx 24 hrs. Two layers is were you are getting almost 100% coverage and adding a little to the wax film layer that is left behind, once you get to 3,4,5 layers you are removing layers of wax because the film thickness just is not stable after that point. You are able to apply a wax on top of a sealant and many people here do that and see no harm in doing so. It adds that nuba look to the sealants.
Ultimately, think it is the cure time that will ensure that the layering will be effective. I guess the "Wax removing wax" thought would be primarily specific to applying second or third layer before first cures.
People get too technical about all this. It's not open heart surgery. Slap on a nice coat of wax. Then put another coat on to ensure even coverage. Stand back, enjoy your work and pour yourself a nice cup of tea. DONE.
It's going to start snowing here soon - 40 degrees today and raining. I left here middle of last week, sunny and in the 80's. Spent three days in SF area and now, I come back to this. May need to think more in terms of hot totties??
I agree. Everyone should read this - all 30 pages! Not neccesarily. Read above. Don't let that get out or people will think they can detail with some dish soap and Turtle Wax. If I had your bill for detailing supplies I'd be crying all the time! LOL
Wax will not remove wax. You need a lipid polymer to remove wax (Dawn) or an acidic solution (Citrus Degreaser). The wax will bond to your paint and will is hard to take off. Try putting hair wax on your hair and see how hard it is to take off, I bet if you kept adding more wax onto it, it won't come off. Last time I put hair wax on, I had to use dawn to remove it. Just remember, basic rule of biology/chemistry.... Like dissolves like. For example, dawn is a lipid based liquid, while wax is a lipid based solid, because they're both lipids, it allows for one to dissolve the other.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, there is alot of chemistry going on with all these products and many of them, though similar in what they do, vary in how they do it. In summary, just follow the mfg. suggestions, they know what is in there product and have given a recommendation they fell is best for their "chemical" If it says to wait 12-24 hrs to cure, i would do that. if it says wipe on, wipe off then i'll do that.
You are correct, wax will not remove wax. However, pretty much all waxes used in car care are waxes mixed with some sort of solvent. If there were no solvent, it wouldn't need time to dry, would it? Nor do I think anyone would attempt to try and wax their car with a lump of pure Carnuba wax. Whatever solvent is used to make the wax spreadable, it's also capable of dissolving the previous layer. And for that matter, considering we all know that something like a 50/50 IPA mix will dissolve the wax coating on your paint or for that matter, the synthetic wax/polymer coating on your paint, it only stands to reason that most solvents that will soften/liquefy waxes be they natural or synthetic, will also be capable of dissolving most sealants. So, in the end, a couple coats of LSP gets the job done, the second coat is there to fill in any low spots from the first application. Now, if you have a sealant that does not easily dissolve with most common solvents that are used to remove wax, well then you're going to have one tough time getting the stuff off eventually. One such cross linking polymer product comes to mind.... it's called a clear coat and goes on top of the base coat of paint on your car to protect it... You can really layer that stuff, and man is it tough! So to quote a gent from another car care forum: "Dude, I just wanna wax my car." Regards Kaptain"I'm not a chemist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night" Zero
Wax contains lipids in the form of fatty acids, a lipid doesn’t dissolve a wax, enzymes (contained in most detergent) or a chemical solvent will. I am a Chemical Engineer, but I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night
I think what he was trying to say was that the actual act of waxing your car is not rocket science, not that there isn't any science behind the products. If you read the article in DW that was posted you will see that layering any more than two layers is pretty useless as after two layers the amount of product left on the paint declines significantly.
Good choice! I've really been enjoying Heineken keg cans lately. If he ordered solely from you, you'd be a rich man! Maybe someone should tell vxrmarc that :giggle:
One thing that should be noted other than that adding additional layers may not be helpful as it may create a unstable film which in-turn when buffed will remove a good amount of it and you will end up with a final film that is thinner than that last. What is not known is the density of the layers, is compression of layers occurs. Just my personal view, 2x layers is what I like and do it for no other reason than to make sure i get as much coverage as I can get. Also remember when buffing dont have to bear down as a MF itself can remove some of the film, mf are created to lift and remove particles and product and they do this very well. So as a general rule that I normally go by and seems like some others is: 1x Coat of sealant 2x coat of a nuba topper This gives you some good durability, depending on products used, best coverage you can get without spending alot of time trying to get those last few percentages missed and will look good.
