Water Marks (Water Spots) Removal

togwt · Feb 23, 2009

Water Marks (Water Spots) Removal

Hamilton · Aug 6, 2009

Does a product like duragloss's water spot remover spray help at all? Am I better sticking with clay and vinegar?

Reflect · Aug 6, 2009

Thanks for the info! I just got CG Water Spot Remover in the mail, definitely have to try it soon.

MrPolished&Waxed · Aug 6, 2009

Ducky Products - Since 1989

Auto Concierge · Sep 27, 2009

Reflect said:

Thanks for the info! I just got CG Water Spot Remover in the mail, definitely have to try it soon.
Click to expand...

Have a 65 GT-350 in the shop presently and without the CG gel I would be up s**t creek as tough water etch LAUGHS at vinegar/alchohol mixtures, even with the gel repeated applications might be needed.

Got Wax · Sep 27, 2009

Nice post and very useful info, thanks!!!!

togwt said:

Water Marks (Water Spots) Removal

Recommended Products
In the interest of full disclosure, I am in no way affiliated with, employed by, have any vested interest, or in any way receive compensation from the sale or distribution of the product lines reviewed or the company that manufactures or markets it.

Results Obtained
These articles are not intended to warrant or guarantee any results with any of the products mentioned. No endorsement of companies or their products mentioned is intended, nor is criticism implied of similar companies or their products not mentioned. The author does not provide, nor guarantee and is not responsible or liable for any third-party products or services. Brand, product and company names used throughout these articles are trademarks of their respective companies and are used for product identification purposes only.

Proper Technique
A sound understanding of the proper technique and the correct process will produce excellent results even with a mediocre product. A quality product used without the proper surface preparation or application technique will never obtain a satisfactory result. Using the proper methodology (surface preparation, using a quality product, along with the correct application technique) will ensure an excellent result.

Skill Level / Experience
Some methods described may be beyond the capabilities of the average detailer or enthusiast; in this case we strongly encourage the reader to consult a professional detailer or body shop concerning the matters discussed herein.

Liability
The writer assumes no responsibility, expressed or implied, due to misuse or misinterpretation of the information or methods used, or for any vehicle damage or injury that may occur due to the suggestions and information offered.

Product Quality and Technique
Proceed with this in mind; the products you use constitute a very small factor in the equation. Methodology and technique constitute 95%; the reasoning behind the choice of quality products is to eliminate any limiting factors, thus enabling you to place emphasis on technique used. There is no `one correct way' to apply a product; the way detailing products are customized are what each individual finds give them their desired results.

Aesthetics
The aesthetics- of a vehicles appearance is very subjective to say the least, the only best wax or sealant that really matters is what looks 'best' to you. In the final analysis it all come down to; 85% preparation, 5% product, 7% application methodology and the balance is in the ‘guy’ of the beholder

Research
Research others opinions and products, test them and then make an objective decision based upon factual information not marketing hype or brand loyalty. I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts?

Detailing products
Should work on their real merits, not ‘smoke and mirrors'. Most importantly - choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon, so I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you.

Water Spots
If you look at a highly- magnified cut-away of a base/clear-coat paint system, it resembles a sponge. The resin system is what holds it together; part of the system has been corrosively eaten away that is why acid rain damage is seen as etching or pitting.

The misnomer ‘water spots’ are caused by a moderate to high alkaline or acidic solution, both of which can cause paint discolouration, surface etching (a concave circular mark and pitting) leaving microscopic surface imperfections and micro pores in the paint film surface that are vulnerable to deterioration, which need to be removed and naturalized as soon as possible.

There are two categories of water spot-
a) Stage One Corrosion [: defined as a surface with light to moderate corrosion damage to the paint surface]

b) Stage Two Corrosion [: definition when the dirt/corrosion deposits are no longer on the surface but have started to break down the molecular structure, leaving an etched or white haze on the surface after the stain has been removed, with moderate to serious paint damage]

a) Surface water spots- (Stage One Corrosion) alkaline watermarks consist of calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) both of which are basic (alkaline pH 10) that alight on the surface; ultra violet (heat) radiation (UVR) will leave a white ‘water mark’, the minute crystals bond to the surface, they will not wash off as they are insoluble and if left for any length of time they will etch the paint film surface leaving a concave circular mark, remove surface deposits with detailer’s clay and an acetic acid pH 2.0 (vinegar) to naturalise the alkaline

b) Below surface (etched) acidic spots- (Stage Two Corrosion ) are caused by an aggressive alkaline or an acidic solution (acid rain, bird excrement or industrial fallout) causing a chemical reaction, if left for any length of time they will etch the paint film surface leaving a concave circular mark. Unlike water spots which typically have a white outline of the spot, acid rain etching is smaller and you can see the damage in the clear coat. Etched acid rain spots are one of the most difficult paint defects to remove so be patient as it will probably take more then one attempt to remove them. Acid spots require an abrasive polish to level the surface (some stubborn marks may require wet sanding) and an alkaline solution to neutralize them, simply rinsing a vehicle with deionised water or tap water activates / reactivates the acid concentrates.

Products - A B C Decontamination / Neutralization system - Automotive International - Valugard Product Line (See also Industrial fall out (IFO) Acid rain and Reactivity)

If the paint can be rectified by chemical means then this is the answer; not abrasive polishing. Using the correct chemical cleaners will dissolve the contaminants rather than abrading the paint. With all cleaning products (especially solvents) always test a small inconspicuous area first to ensure it won't discolour, stain or etch the surface, and ensure that the pH of the product is suitable for the material After the paint surface has been subjected to a chemical cleaning its protective layer (s) have been removed and the paint surface left without protection, so it is very important that a polymer and / or Carnauba wax protection be applied immediately

Always use the least abrasive product first-
1.Use a paint surface cleaner (Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner)
2.Try to dissolve the alkaline-based, surface/etched mineral water deposits try one or more of the following;
3.Use a 2:1 or stronger solution of distilled water/distilled white vinegar (Acetic acid)
4.Try a 2:1 solution of distilled water/Isopropyl Alcohol (adjust ratio as required)
5.Or equal parts distilled water/distilled white vinegar/Isopropyl alcohol.
6.Clean the effected surface with Klasse All-In-One or Zaino Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner
7.Use detailing clay to remove any `hard' surface granules
8.Use a machine polish (Optimum Polish, Optimum Compound) and a cutting (LC White, Orange or Yellow) foam pad (speed # 4- 5.0) to level the surface
9.For Ceramiclear or other hard clear coats substitute Menzerna for machine polish; Super Intensive Polish / Nano Polish (105FF) or Final Finish Polish (106FA)
10.Use the least aggressive polish/foam pad first, if this doesn’t remove the problem step-up to a more aggressive polish / foam pad set-up
11.Wet-sand with 2000, 2500 or 3000 grit finishing paper

1a) Removing surface (Stage One Corrosion) –

Methodology
•Use detailing clay to remove any `hard' surface granules
•Use a paint surface cleaner (Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner)
•Dissolve the alkaline-based, surface/etched mineral water deposits try one or more of the following;
a) Use a 2:1 solution of distilled water/distilled white vinegar (Acetic acid)
b) Try 2:1 solution of distilled water/Isopropyl Alcohol (adjust ratio as required)
c) Or equal parts distilled water/distilled white vinegar/Isopropyl alcohol.
Allow chemical solution sufficient dwell time (5-10 minutes)
•Use a clean spray bottle and 100% cotton Micro fibre cloth to apply the solution to the surface
•Or soak a first aid gauze pad with the vinegar/ water solution, this will help it stay in place during the necessary dwell time, 5-10 minutes) wipe off any residue from surface and dry with a damp waffle weave towel
•Use a clean spray bottle and 100% cotton micro fibre cloth to apply the solution to the paint surface
•Wipe off any residue from the surface and dry with a damp waffle weave towel
•If any `water marks' remain apply distilled white vinegar or Isopropyl alcohol un-diluted to a 100% cotton micro fibre towel, using a medium/heavy pressure on surface, for stubborn spots use an abrasive polish as in 1b)

Products- Danase Water Spot Remover easily removes hard water spots and calcium deposits that etch the surface. Safely bring back and rejuvenate the finish on your painted, clear coated, or glass surfaces with Danase Water Spot Remover.

1b) Removing etched below surface (Stage Two Corrosion)-

Methodology
•These can be removed by using detailer's clay to remove any hardened surface deposits
•Then using a machine polish ( Optimum Polish, Optimum Compound, Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleaner or Klasse All-In-One ) and a cutting (LC Orange or Yellow) foam pad (speed # 4-5.0 / 1200 RPM ) to level the surface (use the least aggressive polish/foam pad first, if this doesn’t remove the problem step-up to a more aggressive set-up)
•Work on a very small area at a time (2-foot x 2-foot) until the polish has run out
•Repeat this process two or three times, as necessary
•Reapply surface protection once spots have been removed.
•If none of the above methods remove the etched water spots consider wet-sanding the paint finish (See also Wet Sanding)

1c) To neutralise acid water spots using a polish or compound will remove the etching and the indentations, the surface should then be neutralised A B C Decontamination / Neutralization system (http:// Automotive International - Valugard Product Line) a safe alkaline wash and neutralizing system, this three part system comprises;

A-Acid Neutralizer, B-Alkaline Neutralizer (use in conjunction with detailers clay to remove ‘water spots’) and C- Surface Conditioner with a pH of 7.0, which safely removes both surface and subsurface contamination and neutralizes any residual acid from the painted finish. (See also Acid Rain & Reactivity)

Notes:
Synthetic steel or bronze wool whatever the grade can leave micro-scratches in the glass, which then become impregnated with road dirt, grit and grime, causing a clouding the glass over time, which impairs visibility.

Do not use abrasive cleaner; glass polish or any grade synthetic steel wool on after market-tinted glass or you will probably scratch the surface.

For deeply etched water spots (> 0.004 Mil) in the windshield surface, do not attempt to polish them out, consult an automotive windshield vendor as glass or plastic used on later model cars is soft and thin (this may vary by manufacturer) due to weight / cost savings by vehicle manufactures and polishing could cause surface to become badly scratched, stressed or cracked.

Be cautious with polishes that contain abrasives like aluminium or cerium oxide as they have the potential to damage glass beyond repair.
Some windshields and mirrors have a tinted plastic coating or a blue tint that will scratch or be damaged, only use a glass polish (not synthetic steel or bronze wool) on uncoated glass.

Information resource

Automotive Detailing Inside & Out; a Knowledge Base for the Perfectionist– by Jon Miller

© TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved

Detailing Articles
This is one of is one of a series of unbiased and informative, knowledge based, subject specific articles, which are dedicated to the automotive detailing enthusiast or professional detailer in search of development and further education

Copyright Protection and intellectual property rights-© This work is registered with the UK Copyright Service that supports international copyright protection by securing independent evidence that will help prove originality and ownership in any future claims or disputes.

All original material is copyright, unless otherwise state (1) it may be copied and distributed for non-commercial purposes only provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original material, (2) the information is copied in full with no changes unless prior written agreement is obtained from TOGWT, and a reference to © TOGWT ™ is included, any unauthorized use of these materials may violate copyrights and/or trademark. Be aware these files have been digitally watermarked and actually contain embedded copyright information; so they can be traced to any website on the internet if needed in a legal confrontation
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Deep Gloss Auto Salon · Sep 27, 2009

Danase water spot remover is the bomb!!!!

froboy272 · Sep 27, 2009

how would you guys compare water spot removal with: danase vs chemical guys vs duragloss vs duckys ??
anyone have experience with more than 1 of these products?

Got Wax · Sep 27, 2009

I've used the DG. Does okay but, it's a spray formula which, I'm thinking, after seeing the CG and Danase formulas, may not be as good. I'm thinking that the heavier formulas may be better products in the longterm. The fact that the DG is spray-on leads me to think it may have more acid than CG or Danase. I'm likely to give the CG and Danase a shot just to test them out and compare.

froboy272 said:

how would you guys compare water spot removal with: danase vs chemical guys vs duragloss vs duckys ??
anyone have experience with more than 1 of these products?
Click to expand...

bigfoot · Sep 27, 2009

Deep Gloss Auto Salon said:

Danase water spot remover is the bomb!!!!
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AMEN!

I just used this for the first time, and it removed everything! Used it on glass and on the underhood of a Cayenne, and it did the job flawlessly! I will write a review about it later on.

Hamilton · Sep 27, 2009

I talked to Jerry @ DG and he stated that the DG water spot spray will not remove a strong sealant. He stated once it sprayed on a surface it quickly becomes ph balanced. It will only remove spots that have not been baked on in the sun.

froboy272 · Sep 27, 2009

Hamilton said:

I talked to Jerry @ DG and he stated that the DG water spot spray will not remove a strong sealant. He stated once it sprayed on a surface it quickly becomes ph balanced. It will only remove spots that have not been baked on in the sun.
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Ok so GotWax was right about DG. Anyone with feedback on CG vs Danase vs Duckys?
I know Norcal Bob likes the CG but one of his writeups said he had to go over the spots with CG 11x. Thats a lot of work. Tempted to just pull the trigger on the danase but they dont have anything else that i would really want.

Hamilton · Oct 5, 2009

I bet the Danase and the CG are very similar. I thought that Danase products are tweaked/customized relabeled CG ( and or their parent company, Warner Chemical).

froboy272 · Oct 5, 2009

Hamilton said:

I bet the Danase and the CG are very similar. I thought that Danase products are tweaked/customized relabeled CG ( and or their parent company, Warner Chemical).
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oh...i didn't know danase was another one of those brands. ok so that makes my question much easier.

does anyone have any feedback on duckys water spot remover?

Bob · Oct 6, 2009

Hamilton said:

I bet the Danase and the CG are very similar. I thought that Danase products are tweaked/customized relabeled CG ( and or their parent company, Warner Chemical).
Click to expand...

Actually we have a couple of blenders we use. I hate to say anything but I hate the false rumors and assumptions that get posted on the net and it always comes from people that don't know. We use CG for some items and we have a blender in Michigan we use for the other. It's about 50/50.

Sorry if I come off like a d!ck but it just gets really old.

Deep Gloss Auto Salon · Oct 6, 2009

http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum/f75/danase-water-spot-remover-quick-review-12042.html

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Water Marks (Water Spots) Removal

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Water Marks (Water Spots) Removal

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Got Wax Banned

Deep Gloss Auto Salon DB Pro Supporter

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Got Wax Banned

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