So this is a quote from another forum I belong to. Can someone please shed some light on what to give for a proper response? I had told him that color is not a factor when choosing "Paint Color is a factor in multiple ways. First, you are correct, lighter colors hide scratching, swirls, and spider webbing much better than darker colors. Second, if it does get marred in some way, it is 100x easier to get it to look like its not on a white car, because you can buff away without the worries of excessive swirls that will be created. White is by far the easiest color to maintain or fix if damage occurs. The darker colors show more oxidation, more swirls, and more definition in scratches. Add to that the fact that darker colors absorb more heat, which in turn melts wax back to a liquid form, then a trip down the highway rolls it off the hood, roof and trunk and you have a recipe for disaster. So, color is a MAJOR factor when deciding on care of the surface, such as time between waxes." What are your guys' thoughts on his statement about waxes not lasting as long on darker colors, and the surface temp getting hot enough to melt wax and roll off the car. I kind of chuckled at that. But the point I'd like to discuss is, can the difference in surface temperatures of different color paints have that much of an effect on the useful life of an applied LSP (all other factors being equal)?
i'm no chemist or physicist mind you but imho the greater the surface temp. of the surface the quicker the lsp is going to disappate. i.e. an lsp will last a little longer on a lighter colored car than a darker one if they're left out in the heat of the day. again just my opinion.
Ligh colours reflect heat, whereas darker colour absorb and retain heat The average blackest black has a light reflection value (LRV ) of approximately 5% and the whitest white is approximately 85%. Some yellows can measure up into the 80's or 90's as well. All colours fit in between these two extremes. A colour with an LRV of 50 will reflect 50% of the light that falls on it, and one with an LRV of 23 will reflect 23% of the light, and so on. Think of a reflective value as a numerical version of a grey value scale for colours, roughly like this: Colour - Reflective Value Pure White - 100, White -95, Light - 80, Low Light - 65, Medium - 50, High Dark - 35, Dark – 20 Vehicle paint surface temperatures- Ambient Air temp - 90oF temperatures (attained after 2-hours) slight air movement (with still air add 10-15oF) Table VI Temperatures attained by various paint colours Paint Colour Temperatures White 115.oF - 46.oC Red 123- 50.5 Dark Blue 126- 52 Black 127- 53 Metallic blue/green 126- 52 Dark Metallic Green 137- 58 Interior Dependant upon interior colour Light 104.oF - 135.oC Dark 220 – 275 An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.
Thank you for the in depth response, TOGWT! Do you think that difference in temperature would be enough to significantly affect the wax's longevity?
TOGWT...interior temps will be affected greatly by the exterior paint color as well...if it's a darker color then more heat/energy is absorbed by the sheet metal and therefore will be conducted throughout the entire vehicle.
In order for wax to be liquid enough to roll off the car, i would think it would be liquid enough to be seen..rubbish if you ask me sir...i know paint gets hot but i dont think it is hot enough to melt wax, but as already mentioned, im not a chemist and without wax manufacturers releasing the melting point of their wax, all anyone can do is speculate, this guy just chooses to speculate radically, and in my opinion, wrongly
$1000 to the first guy that shows me a video of wax rolling off the hood of his car! Picture this. You come out of the 7-11, slurpee in hand to find a pool of Vintage on the ground around your car!:yikes: Yeah, right. The heat may affect it's longevity for sure, but to cause it to roll or melt off the car, no. I would think that if the sun was hot enough to melt the wax right off your car, the wax is the least of your worries! LOL
Ken, thanks for the laugh today. Theres not much more to say than that is one of the dumbest things I have heard someone say about wax.
The guy's got a point as Jon pointed out, but the wax obviously does not roll off the car. What happens though is the UV radiation causes the wax or sealant to break down over time. The darker colour is going to attract more sun/heat/UV rays. That's what he should have said.
Zymol's melting point is just under 100 F. However, thats with the solvents and whatnot still in there. Cured wax should have a super high melting point
Ken..you didn't hear me agree with the wax rolling off bullshit. I just think to the phone calls (and I have had many) with Jerry from DG about products and their strengths and weaknesses. UV radiation is a bitch regardless whether you're talking sealant or wax. Jon (TOGWT) agreed too about the paint colour attracting the sun. "Just the facts, mam, just the facts"..it's hard to put the cop mentality away sometimes. Even though his one basis was as fictious as it gets, his other point is valid. Not that I even care right now...my knee is throbbing and I just took a percosat and am going to bed.:thumb:
Just kiddin' with you Rich. Maybe grab a happy pill with that percosat buddy!! LOL. Have a good sleep.
ok, he may have been being slightly facetious when he said that the wax would melt and "roll off" I highly doubt anyone has seen this happen. I am not a chemist, but I am a biology and Chemistry student. Through knowledge about lipids (what wax is) and how temperature affects lipids, and ALSO by sheer experience with wax on my Carbon Black Hood during South Carolina summer, I think what happens is that the wax "outgases" or evaporates. The higher the temp, I think the faster the RATE of evaporation, and since darker colors absorb heat and do not transmit or reflect the heat that is in sunlight, the black cars tend to retain the higher temps meaning the wax "sweats" alot (my hood sweats SO BAD in summer), and the wax evaporates....not melts but turns into a gas, not a liquid form "rolling off" anyone's hood. just my 2
also, whether the rate of evaporation between black and white cars is significant???? I'm highly skeptical, but there is a very good way to find out....SCIENTIFIC EXPERIMENTATION!
Fracture/evaporation temperatures [: the melting point of a solid is the temperature range at which it changes state from solid to liquid. At the melting point the solid and liquid phase exists in equilibrium.] Polymers (including Acrylic polymers) 350.°F, Silicone oil 350.°F, Mineral oils 200.°F, Synthetic blends (Carnauba wax / polymers) 200.°F, Carnauba wax 183.°F, Bee’s wax 130.°F in actual practice the high temperatures frequently encountered by vehicles from the radiation causes wax compounds to melt. For example, painted surfaces exposed to ambient temperatures of 85. °F in direct sunlight will obtain a temperature of 195. °F or more. It should be noted that there is a range of temperatures at which melting begins and that the 'melting point' is the end point of that range The most important thing to be aware of when preparing to wax your car is the temperature of the actual surface area being waxed. This is even more important than the ambient temperature, which should be between 50° and 80. °F (10° - 26.7. °C) Higher temperatures will cause the solvents to flash leaving a ‘hard’ wax on the paint surface that is very difficult to remove. If the car has been in the sun for any time, it should be brought into the shade and allowed to cool off before applying any wax or glaze. Applying wax when the temperature is less than 60.°F could result in streaking or difficulty in removing it from the surface. An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.
As I've already stated a light colour (especially white) reflects heat, whereas a dark colour (Black) absorbs or retians heat. TIP- look up 'Black body' [...what happens is that the wax "outgases" or evaporates...] ampbmw The wax does in fact evapourate (outgassing is when the solvent carrier system evapourates) leaving the semi-solid wax behind
thank you again, togwt for your research and insight. but from what i gather from your excerpts, it seems like you are saying that most carnauba waxes will not last in a summer day. would that be a correct assumption for a dark coloured vehicle? obviously from your numbers it would be better to have a sealant, but this info could prove very handy for those in warmer climates that woul experience those high surface temps more frequently
